Leakdown and Italian Tune ups. very dirty | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Leakdown and Italian Tune ups. very dirty

Discussion in '348/355' started by SoCal1, Dec 14, 2014.

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  1. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,636
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
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    Tim Dee
    For sure on the marketing games, can't beat cash in the right hands to twist it their own way

    :)
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,279
    socal
    #27 fatbillybob, Dec 15, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Super easy to get the carbon out with plenum off. I just did this last week. If I ever see this again this top end cleaning will just be part of my major service. All heads have some of the brown goop from the vapor recovery system. This is my head with 20k miles. It is very clean yet the intake valves are carboned up more than I would like to see. Stone cold Leak down was 4-5% so valves and guides rock solid. I had Fuel injector spray patterns rated fair with 4 of 12 dripping! That can account for lots of carboning up plus possible short hop driving. I have always promoted the idea of having injectors serviced at every major service by a quality service like RC engineering. The PO did good hour plus drives but we don't know about the PO PO for this car. After talking to my friend the last PO I suspect the fuel injectors.
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  3. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
    8,636
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    Tim Dee
    4 of 12 is a lot of leaking
    For sure injector blueprinting or servicing is something that should be done more ina car that sits then driven. Thats us for sure
     
  4. vracer

    vracer Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2014
    1,098
    NorCal
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    Richard
    I would assume that the stuff is pretty volatile, and that the effective additives would all be gone if you put it in a full tank but did not drive enough to empty the tank for a month. (That's actually a question for some of you who are much more knowledgeable than I.)

    Have any of you ever heard of "Throttle Muscle" FI cleaner? I received a couple of bottles in the goodie bags for a rally we were on.
     
  5. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
    8,636
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    Tim Dee
    Yes you want to use it the day you put it in

    Never herd of mr muscle cleaner LOL I am sure its good
     
  6. vracer

    vracer Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2014
    1,098
    NorCal
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    Richard
    Thanks, Tim. So the plan is to put 20 gallons worth of the mouse milk in 10 gallons, then go run off 6 gallons or so. (I start to get nervous when the fuel light comes on, even though it is designed to come on at about 5 gal.)
     
  7. Badabing!

    Badabing! Formula Junior

    Mar 30, 2014
    731
    NYC
    Tim,

    How are you doing with this project?
     
  8. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 13, 2009
    33,965
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    Lucky
  9. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee
    I'm on it

    Going to do an update when I have enough info to make sense, no use adding stuff just to have it fragmented.
    Found quite a few reasons why things fail on this car and some simple solutions to keep them running best they can. Typical era euro stuff LOL :)
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,288
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    That was nothing.

    Seen much worse and often. A common sight in 355 motors. We have seen the back side of the valve that looked like half a black fluffy golf ball and nearly occluded the port.


    Guides and seals combined with conservative driving.
     
  11. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee
    I could imagine these things are bad

    I'm sure oil vapor and leaky injectors getting in there are not helping either. Sure having fun going over this thing with a microscope. Makes me feel young and dumb again :)
     
  12. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2004
    7,362
    Kzoo Michigan


    Black tar heroin smuggled in the heads of a 355!!
     
  13. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee
    I knew these were party cars :)
     
  14. nsx2F355

    nsx2F355 Formula Junior

    Mar 12, 2013
    708
    SLC
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    Tony
    This is an excellent thread. I'm a novice so how long should I idle car after hard hot drive? I'd it horrible to just turn it off and pop the hatch to cool? Any input is greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance.
     
  15. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
    Midwest
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    Brian
    I suggest to my customers that every car should be started, then adjust you a$$ in the seat, put seatbelt on, check mirrors, etc., etc., then drive off and let the motor/box warm up as you drive. I believe those two minutes or so are crucial.
    Similarly, upon arriving at a destination, allow the car to idle while you collect your stuff/thoughts etc., release your belt, as you open the door, turn off the engine and remove key. Again those two minutes allowing temps to normalise can make a difference IMO
     
  16. Rice-Racer

    Rice-Racer Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
    252
    As far as carbon buildup, meth/water injection etc...
    Ever notice how your car seems a bit 'snappier' on a rainy day?
    Most of these cars are driven on sunny days.
    Water/moisture in the air on a good rainy day goes through your air intake and to where? Water is a great way of removing carbon deposits in the heads, it's proven years ago, so water injection was used on many performance engines as a standard practice.
    We've used it on our high horsepower turbocharged snowmobiles, winter grade windshield washer fluid, as it won't freeze like water (methanol in it) to prevent detonation etc.
    Basically, a conservative driven engine will start collecting all this buildup, along with poor fuel quality, easily.
    Pumping 400 HP out of a 4 cylinder sled engine at 18 lbs boost, burning straight 100LL aviation gas can be a pricey repair, yet when I pulled my heads off, clean as a whistle!
    Techron is a super, proven product, maybe others out there similar, but if you're going to baby it, I'd expect a gummed up set of heads/valves.
    It would be interesting to see a list/graph of all the badly gummed up heads, with driving habits, fuel brand and location, just for curiosity. My 2 cents worth
     
  17. lotusk

    lotusk Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,840
    London UK

    Can someone explain why conservative driving leaves this tar stuff around the intake valves?
    And why it is that a long spirited drive getting the motor up to 8000 rpm, etc. is best?
    Interested in what mechanically is happening in there.

    Something to do with oil temperature is it?
     
  18. Rice-Racer

    Rice-Racer Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
    252
    I think it's just a richer fuel/air mixture, not getting a good dose of a constant steady burn rate, along with higher flows in the chamber.
    Think of it this way, your engine as an air compressor trying to run a high air demand device on an empty air tank. The fuel is going in at a basic/minimal programmed rate, evap system adding extra oil/gas vapors, yet not getting the most air it could use. Your loading your engine head chambers with more fuel/gases then it would be happy with and wants to breathe, so the by-products build up. As I mentioned previously, a rainy day drive will clean this up, as water in the air will actually clean off deposits, proven fact!
    I have personally trickled a garden hose down a carburetor on my rodded up '56 chevy just to clean the crap out of the valves/chambers.
     
  19. TrojanFan

    TrojanFan F1 Veteran
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    Nov 17, 2008
    5,186
    So. CA & NV
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    Peter
    I need to get a smog check on the 355 next week. I ran a couple bottles of Techron in with about 12 gallons of gas a few months back.

    Good or bad idea to have Techron in the tank when taking a smog check? I'm down to about 1/3 tank of gas and thinking about adding another bottle but some will be left in the tank for smog check time.
     

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