Leaking right tank | FerrariChat

Leaking right tank

Discussion in '206/246' started by boboding, Oct 8, 2009.

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  1. boboding

    boboding Rookie

    Oct 8, 2009
    15
    Upstate NY
    Full Name:
    Bob Fennell
    Hello All,
    I'm a pure newbie to the list. My right side fuel tank in my US version 246 GTS has a leak where the coolant pipe passes close to it about midway up on the inboard side. I believe that pipe over time has worn a small hole in the tank. Any recommendations on how to fix? I am mechanical to a point. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    Regards,
    Bob
     
  2. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,294
    CHNDLR
    Full Name:
    Scott
    If the tank is truly breeched then it'll have to be removed and welded. I believe that means you'll have to remove the hoses, vent tubes (careful, they're delicate) and the mounting retainer strap. To slide the unit out you'll probably have to remove the right rear suspension. The float mechanism is not always on the same side of every Dino, but US cars typically have it on the left tank, so that's one task you won't have to do.

    This can be done with a simple floor jack and stands by a DIY type by turning wrenches and unfastening clamps. While you're there I'd inspect the large crossfeed tank hoses at the bottom of the tank for age.
     
  3. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    Bob and Scott - I believe that it can be fixed while in the car. If you can identify the hole in the tank, you should first try using a wire brush to remove the thick, gold, protective weather crud that is sprayed on at the factory. Remove it in an area of around 6 inches square centered on the hole. Try to clean the surrounding area as best as possible. Then take an aluminum plate approximately 1 inch smaller than your clean area. Cover the center of the area with a sealant that works with fuel (to plug the hole). The outside perimeter of the plate should be covered with JB Weld or similar adhesive. Press the plate onto the tank and apply pressure (lean something or wedge something) against it overnight.

    The good news is that with the early cars there is not too much pressure buildup in the tank. Modern cars are sealed, and pressure rises with temperature quite a bit. You will have to deal solely with the hydrostatic pressure of the fuel, which is not much in the tank even at the bottom. A friend sealed his tank from a leak at the bottom without much difficulty.

    Once done you can respray the area with an appropriate color weather coating.

    Should you have to remove the tank, I believe it can be done without removing the suspension. My sending units, by the way, have all been on the right side tank. Is your car air-conditioned? Way more trouble. You may have to loosen the oil-water heat exchanger to swing a bit out of the way (a few millimeters), but I have removed the tank without removing the suspension.

    Jim S.
     
  4. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,294
    CHNDLR
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    Scott
    #4 synchro, Oct 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Jim is correct, having an A/C compressor really adds to the effort.

    When I had a fuel tank leak on that exact side, investigation resulted in the discovery that the three vent return lines had been stressed and cracked at the base. A prior owner performed a J-B weld patch and it did last many years.
    pic attached.
    After removal, master vintage Ferrari restorer (and a great AL welder), Tony Garmey, welded up the breech and also welded a aluminum reinforcing strap across all three vent tubes just below the hose connections to enhance rigidity and prevent the same from happening again.

    Tony stated that personal safety required he completely empty the tank of fumes and displace the majority with water as welding with an enclosed container with residual petroleum was something he wasn't comfortable doing.

    I have a few extra liters of the correct beige underbody coating if you need them.

    Note on the oil-water heat exchanger: it is soft (brass?) and can be delicate, if you have to remove it from the car then I'd recommend remove the fittings from the engine-hose side and leave the fittings untouched at the heat exchanger.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. boboding

    boboding Rookie

    Oct 8, 2009
    15
    Upstate NY
    Full Name:
    Bob Fennell
    I will attempt the non removal first with a patch to the worn location. My only concern is that it will be quite difficult to work in that space. My lower coolant heat exchanger hose is the suspected culprit. I would have to move/remove the heat exchanger to make room to be able to clean the area to affect the patch. The car does have AC. What thickness aluminum patch plate would you use? The area around the breach is convex.
     
  6. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    Thickness is not critical. Whatever you can bend and work with comfortably.

    Jim S.
     
  7. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,294
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    Scott
    If the root cause is the hose and connected pipe, there is some variation in the mounting position. I noticed this when I changed my hoses and coolant pipes. You'll have to drain the system of a bit of coolant and unfasten the hose at both ends (those two tasks might occur at the same time so watch the flow ). Once the hose is loose at both ends then rotate it with the hopes of moving the rubbing bend/section away from the tank.
    This will be one of those dirty/nasty jobs where dirt and liquids fall on you, but getting it right is imperative. You don't want that rub to affect the tank any more.

    In fact, if it is rubbing now then won't you have to remove the hose to access the damaged portion of the tank?
     
  8. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    I thought about it a bit more. You could use a beer-can, cut open to provide sufficient surface area. However, I should think that a Coors would work best.

    Jim S.
     
  9. boboding

    boboding Rookie

    Oct 8, 2009
    15
    Upstate NY
    Full Name:
    Bob Fennell
    I was able to move the heat exchanger up about a half an inch in the clamp that holds it. That allowed enough space to scrape off the under coating and affect a small aluminum patch with JB Weld around the perimeter along with enough clearance so that future abrasion will be avoided. I had only pumped out enough fuel so that the hole was above the level of the remaining fuel when the side of the car was jacked up. Patch complete and looking good but not cured, I buttoned everything back up, put the wheel back on and lowered the car. Proud of my work until the the fuel worked through the uncured JB and flowed all over the floor. Repeat process and car is still curing. I plan on setting it down today to have a look. Thanks again!
     
  10. ferrarioldman

    ferrarioldman Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2002
    1,033
    Summerfield, NC
    Full Name:
    Tom Jones
    Pull the tank and get it fixed correctly. That area is too close to the exhaust to have another surprise leak.
     
  11. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,294
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    #11 synchro, Oct 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a photo of the vent tube repair and the added cross-brace to reinforced the vent tubes. Looks better now and I'm much happier about one less thing to worry about down the road.
    Note that the cutout for the A/C compressor extends all the way back, meaning the tank should slide out without removing the A/C compressor.

    Perhaps you could post some photos of your task?
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  12. boboding

    boboding Rookie

    Oct 8, 2009
    15
    Upstate NY
    Full Name:
    Bob Fennell
    #12 boboding, Oct 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. boboding

    boboding Rookie

    Oct 8, 2009
    15
    Upstate NY
    Full Name:
    Bob Fennell
    You can see in the second photo that the heat exchanger tank is now at the maximum height in the clamp. The cause of the friction was from it being all the way at it's lowest point. The coolant pipe heading to the front radiator was not in the indent in the tank but rubbing against it.
     
  14. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,386
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    Glad to hear that......some of us are nervous to hear "JB WEld" and "fuel tank" in the same sentence!
     
  15. need4speed

    need4speed Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,616
    Pacific Palisades
    This just happened to me! I never would have thought a fuel tank could be rubbed through. Why are things packaged so tightly? Anyways, my mechanic has already fixed my tank by welding. Just crazy.
     
  16. racerboy9

    racerboy9 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,650
    I would cut an inch or so of hose and slide it on the coolant pipe at the rub point for added protection.
     
  17. need4speed

    need4speed Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,616
    Pacific Palisades
    Yes, this is exactly what we are going to do. Thanks
     
  18. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2007
    8,312
    E.S.
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    But, but....I fixed a D-11 with JB weld
     

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