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Left Ignition On - Drained Battery

Discussion in '360/430' started by Silentnoiz, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. Silentnoiz

    Silentnoiz Karting

    Nov 18, 2017
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    I left my key in the ignition in Position II overnight (the curious can read to the end as to how in the world). It drained the battery completely. It happened to be plugged into my CTEK 4.3 when I left it like that, but was still dead when I got to it after it had been like that for ~10 hours.

    I pulled the key out of the ignition and the CTEK was on phase 1 (of 8). I monitored the CTEK through it's phases, and it was within what the manual stated as max times at each phase. After about a little more than 24 hours, the CTEK was on phase 7 (I've never seen it get to phase 8).

    The manual states: "Each time the battery master switch is turned to ON, wait at least 10 seconds with the ignition key turned to position II before starting the engine. This enables the electronic system managing the motor-driven valves to perform the self-learning procedure."

    A few questions: What concerns are there? Do I potentially need a new battery? Are any electronics at risk?

    The story. It was Friday night, I was planning to go to C&C the next morning, so I went to get some gas so I wouldn't have to stop in the am. When I got back home, I decided to wash my wheels and some bugs off the front bumper, so I closed the windows to do that. After it was all dry, I pulled it into the garage into my CarCapsule (which btw is absolutely awesome). I shut the car down, and realized I forgot to put the windows down (I keep them down to keep everything well ventilated). So I put the key in the ignition into position II so I could put the windows down. Next morning, I'm ready to head to C&C and I couldn't find my keys anywhere. I checked my clothes, jackets, potential drop-off points, and everywhere else, but nothing. Of course I finally did find them...left in the ignition. And that's....the rest of the story.
     
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  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

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    Just charge it up and should be fine
     
  4. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    yes , Lead acid SLI batteries can be forgiving to a point -
     
  5. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    I consider Lead Acid batteries consumables. On cars that I still had lead acid fitted I tend to change them every 2-3 years just to be sure.
     
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  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

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    Toyota batteries are very good if looking for a replacement, they last 8 years on a Toyota
     
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  8. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    This is my policy as well. If it's 3 years old or older replace it. $120 bucks.
    A lead acid battery that has been drained completely in my experience never works 100% again. The rub is if it was only charging to 50% or 70% BEFORE this, you alternator is working harder to charge batteries that are depleted, so greater wear on the charging circuity and wiring and greater risk for failure. 65k miles on mine and since I've been replacing batteries at the 3 year mark in all my cars, no need for a new alternator in any of them.
     
  9. Zcobra1

    Zcobra1 Formula 3
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    Follow the advice given here by others..... get a new battery. Get a AGM, less prone to leakage in an accident and not much more than standard. Cheap insurance to not get stuck somewhere with a dead battery.
    Sears Diehard and Bosch (Pep Boys) can be had for around $150 with usual or internet ordering discounts.
     
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  10. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Both of my fans were running one hot day when I pulled into the garage, so I turned the key back on to allow the fans to continue to run while the engine was off until the fans shut off. I walked into the house and completely forgot about it until hours later. The battery was toast. I replaced it. For $120, it is way better than the myriad of possible issues that could occur if not replacing.
     
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  11. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    BTW sure you all already know this but AGM batteries are still lead acid batteries ! there are only a couple factories that make batteries in the USA ! due to the hazard of lead ! they just use a different case , label on them to make it appear diffferent ! i could not get the ( slightly ) superior Bosch S-6 battery for my research as they are not made here ! we would like to find an A123 lithium battery, sized to fit a F430 ( as used in Mercedes Benz it is superlative ! ) as I recall they have an exclusive on it ( for now ) !
     

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  13. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #10 f355spider, Nov 5, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
    Better still, I recommend folks consider buying a battery load tester. I bought one from Griots Garage several years ago and it is awesome, and simple to use. It quickly tells me the health of the battery with no guessing.
    But I agree, most flooded cell batteries do not take well to a deep discharge and will lose some or all of their capacity. That is why using an AGM or deep cycle battery can be advantageous if you a prone to deep discharge. Both can typically withstand such abuse with less impact.
     
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  14. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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  15. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Bosch is best based on what criteria? Based on published specifications, actual testing of one, or personal use?
     
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  16. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    #13 neil e dale, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
    have been researching batteries the Odessey AGM has a stellar reputation among the off- road racing 4WD crowd ! many say it has lasted for 8-9 years ! and withstands really tough , brutal conditions ! it is very heavy . Amusingly, they say it is made of "virgin lead " which they assert is superior ( to recycled lead ? ) LOL I have a PC1200 R I will fit to my F430 Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Ah yes sorry there, as for the Bosch S-6, I meant to say best of the Bosch brand AGM batteries! (and not avail in USA apparently) - They were going to give me an S-6 to test evaluate but.... They do not import batteries ! so all the Bosch available are made in the USA, in fact, the lead-acid batteries here are all made by 4 companies and different cases, labels applied, used! .................................
    1. Johnson Controls International (NYSE:JCI)
    Market cap: US$36.21 billion
    Through its Power Solutions division, Johnson Controls International is the world’s leading supplier of lead-acid batteries........................................................................
    2. EnerSys (NYSE:ENS)
    Market cap: US$2.75 billion
    EnerSys is a leading maker of industrial batteries for applications including motive power (batteries for lift trucks and material-handling equipment) and reserve power (for such electricity-generation facilities and data centers), as well as for aerospace and defense uses. ..................................................................................
    3. Aqua Metals (NASDAQ:AQMS)
    Market cap: US$150.23 million
    Aqua Metals is reinventing lead recycling with its patent-pending AquaRefining technology. The AquaRefining process takes place at room temperature and is water based; it’s also non-polluting. Aqua Metals expects the system to allow the lead-acid battery industry to simultaneously reduce its negative environmental impacts and increase production. .................................................................................................................................................................
    4. Exide Industries (NSE:EXIDEIND,BOM:500086)
    Market cap: INR 166.55 billion
    Exide Industries supplies industrial batteries for a number of applications, including cars, factories, solar technology and submarines. The India-based company has nine factories in India and a dealership network spanning across five continents and 46 countries. Exide has two major lead-acid battery recycling facilities in the US,
     
  17. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    * best of the Bosch batteries! - other brands may, in fact, be superior! So far in my testing? Odyssey is supreme
     
  18. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    I used an Odyssey PC1500 in my F355 Spider for many years with no issues, it was a brute and worked very well (800CCA). I actually purchased it at Sears as Odyssey was the private label manufacturer of AGM batteries for Sears at the time. Now Sears AGM batteries are made by East Penn it appears based on the case dimensions and design. East Penn is a very high quality manufacturer and private label manufactures for many companies, including Sears., Duracell, Rayovac and other car battery labels. They also sell under their own name. East Penn also owns Douglas Battery, which OEMs for BMW.
     
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  19. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    You should subscribe to Consumer Reports are review their testing and ranking of car batteries. They are the only legitimate independent testing company rating car batteries. In past columns they have described their testing regimen.
     
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  20. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    Yes, I agree ! well, their reviews and testing procedures are really pretty good and they are populated w/ real engineers and do good scientific regimens and proper methodology! They also have huge $ funds to buy their own items tested - so less bias! I have been researching, testing batteries for a limited specific application, to help battery companies have a fitment application in their catalog for a particular car marque where none exist presently, So my sample is of necessity, very restricted and limited. ironically, it seems the batteries are sized slightly smaller both physically and in Amp hours than a F430 typical fitment but as I live in a very warm place, we can get away w/ a smaller battery ! and as a coincidental bonus, the terminals are right front + ( commonly called "reversed" - like a Ferrari ! ) so I have another use/home for them ! EG a typical fitment on an F430 might be a Odyssey PC1500 battery which weighs 49.5 LBS (22.4 kg) the PC 1200 I will use is 38.2 LBS (17.7kg) hence 11.3 LBS lighter ( and about 75$ cheaper retail ! )
     
  21. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    You claim only four car battery manufacturers. Where does Odyssey and East Penn fall under your list? Are they a subsidiary of one of the four?
     
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  22. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    My understanding is ALL batteries commonly sold in the USA come from those 4 just as most oil filters are made by just two companies ( in USA if that is their country of origin ) EG my Odyssey battery, Pc1200 ( w a metal case ) was selected as it is more resistant to heat and it was going in a front engine, turbocharged car w/ severe heat soak issues. It says it is a product of Ener Sys .
     
  23. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    the article I quoted April 2018 had a footnote
    "an updated version of an article first published by the Investing News Network in 2013. Let us know if we missed a major lead-acid battery maker or recycler that you think should be included." ....................................................... Right you are, I forgot East Penn and will/ would have corrected it before publishing! I have one of their Duracell AGM car batteries in a car now testing ! ! they delivered it in person!.... works well ! - and heat is a bigger killer of batteries than cold IMHO so the Sonoran desert (AZ) is an acid test for durability.
     
  24. Silentnoiz

    Silentnoiz Karting

    Nov 18, 2017
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    Everything above sounds like quite sound advice to me. I think I'll replace the battery with a new one, and remove any concerns of potential near-term failure of the battery, or heavy taxation of the alternator leading to the chance of premature failure.

    I've been reading through many threads of which battery to buy. All I've determined so far is that the Group Size that best fits a 360 is 34R, and one that meets the needs of the original battery's 12V-65Ah-450A specs. Also sounds like AGM is the way to go.

    Thanks to all who have chimed in to this, very helpful indeed.
     
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  25. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #22 f355spider, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
    The Sears Gold AGM was well reviewed by Consumer Reports a couple years ago. https://www.sears.com/diehard-advanced-gold-agm-battery-group-size-34r/p-02850733000P
    Excellent 3 year free replacement warranty, 775CCA. $200, and 41lbs, so not quite as heavy as the 49lb PC1500 version from Odyssey (half the price as well). Double check the dimensions, to confirm it fits. Seems battery manufacturers do not always follow exactly with the technical drawings for each specific size closely. Sometimes they are a little smaller or larger in some dimension.
     
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  26. Zcobra1

    Zcobra1 Formula 3
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    #23 Zcobra1, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
    I installed a Bosch AGM H6/L3/48 from Pep Boys, part number 1058187, recessed reversed terminals, that we need. Currently if you order on line you get 20% off. This is iirc a 720 caa, so lots of amps.... it is a group 48; but fits fine.
    Iirc correctly, Consumer reports had good ratings on this AGM battery.
    The last thing you want is a dead battery on your 360 and have someone jump it and fry the electronics, it has happened ....
     
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  27. neil e dale

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    Yup , right you are about dimensions ! many cars there is extra room - but not all ! Sears are good stuff re-branded some other brand ! a great choice BTW the odyssey is avail cheaper than that ($400) but it is about $100 more than the sears .......Amazon :
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Odyssey Batteries 34R-PC1500T Automotive/Light Truck and Van Battery
    by ODYSSEY
    4.9 out of 5 stars 44 customer reviews Share

    $289.92
    & FREE Shipping + $0.00 estimated tax
    New Arrives between November 13-16. Ships from NC, United States.Shipping rates and return policy.
    AutoHaus
     
  28. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    sorry meant the Bosch S-6 is the best of Bosch AGM batteries not of all batteries !
     

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