Leonardo Diagnostic tool Clinic/demonstrartion

Can you provide more information on the individual owners scanner? Will they be offered for any of the cars that the big scanner can work on (specifically for me the 2009 Maserati GTS with F1 tranny)? What's the price point (more or less, I just need a ball park)? It sounds like its functions will be limited, can you expand on that, what will it not be able to do?

Thanks.

 

Nick, do you have a model and application list for the Aston Martin software yet? Will it cover the pre-WDS diagnostic cars such as the i6DB7 and DB7 vantage?

Cheers.

 

Our goal has been after sales service and updates and we intend to make this tool the best tool for high line cars on the market, within the next 18-24 months we could see a USA factory and development facility in Nevada if everything continues to go as planned.

We thank all of you who have purchased a tool and we want you to know that we are working hard to make the tool even better!
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Owned mine for over 12 months now and still have non comm issues with 456/550/575. Still marginal coverage of the bulk of my early model customers. Distressing to be unable to do what I've told my customers my magic scanner should do.

These are the same issues from day 1 to date, I am sure that you want me to pony up the $4000, but for what? More of the same? Answers please.

 

And still no reply regarding the Aston software...as a shop owner i'd gladly pony up the money for a Leonardo but i think i'll give it a miss judging by all the issues with it....

 

Thanks for the offer to replace hardware if faulty Nick. I'll check the software #s today and get back to you. I feel that personally I would prefer no bluetooth, I wish it were possible to hardwire to the OBD port. Also, was there ever a resolve for the poor battery? Also you mentioned a while back that 12v supply cable was being made and I see it listed as a part of a new machine, was this ever going to be retro distributed along with a battery solution?

My personal machine has had connectivity issues from day 1, I've assumed either it was me or software requiring updates, but when I have seven cars currently in my shop and can communicate with only a small number of those it is frustrating and costly. I am not trying to bad mouth the product, I was excited about buying one, my shop needs something like this promised, unfortunately it takes a back seat to a $300 generic scanner 90% of the time. I would LOVE to have this working and reliable and then add Aston asap.

Brian

 

Nick,

Sounds like the owners machine will be little more than a generic obd2 reader with limited PIS adjustability. Remember that we can get obd2 reading for less than a few hundred dollars but the descriptions of the proprietary codes are worth something we can't get with a generic scanner. Also note that at $3000 that is a lot of taking it to the dealer to just adjust the PIS after an owner has replaced an inspec clutch pack. Over the life of ownership the owners device needs to pay for itself if owners are going to buy it.

 

Discussions with Nick and Giovanni have resulted in them offering to replace my whole package, there must be a glitch in either hardware or the software making this act up. Been a little frustrated not making enough to pay for this baby, but they're standing behind the product as they said they would.

Thanks guys.

FBB, I agree, a generic does most that an individual might need, but as you know the skill is in the operator not the machine. Also FWIW the Leo doesn't spell out diagnostic stratergies as you might find on the BMW or MEB factory scanners. Also, how often will an owner need to find/set or adjust the PIS? All the hydraulics can be operated (very cautiously) to enable bleeding without use of any scanner, but not for the faint of heart and NO I'm not going to say how to do it.

 

Yes we agree which is why if Leonardo wants to sell a consumer unit there must be some additional functionality. It takes a long time to pay back $3000 for a tool at DIY frequency of repair.

 

I for one would want to be able to set the PIS so I can do my own clutch changes.

 

But how many clutch changes will an owner actually do? If they change that often, it's because they are set up wrong. Should be a 3+ yearly thing at worst!

No profile for you Phil so I don't know if you are owner or lurker (no offence meant), but any shop needs the real tools on ANY marque they profess to repair properly. As Accinni have mentioned, with any of these reprogrmming types of scanner, it is just as easy to screw things up with the internet education many seem to prefer over real world training/expertise.

As FBB stated, most issues encountered with CELs are readable and decipherable without an SD/ST/Leo, a generic OBD will do. Tripping airbags when changing batteries etc., can be avoided easily, as can ABS faults when bleeding brakes. Many posters on these forums can attest that lack of the factory level tool has not stopped them performing routine repairs and maintenance, at $3K the features which might be included would probably NEVER be used by most buyers of such a product.

Every vehicle into my shop gets a full scan of systems, that's why it was necessary for me to resolve any issues with the Leo, it helps me to decipher the overall state of the car, keep a track of that car, and keep the owner abreast of any upcoming expense or possible issues. Having said that, the most used systems are definitely, Motronic, gearbox/clutch, the others maybe show problems rarely.

 

Brian, I'm an owner, 2002 360 Spider (no offense taken..)

I'm also an engineer and can't stand not having what I need to perform routine repairs (I consider a clutch a routine repair) Every three years is often enough for me to want the tool needed to set the PIS and perform other diagnosis. There is no substitute for having the right tools. Doing things without the correct tools leads to half @ssed solutions, and tons of wasted time / frustration.

I have a version of the BMW DIS/GT1 because you can't change out most modules in recent BMWs (my daily drivers) without coding them to the car (which is a ridiculous ploy by BMW to generate service $$$ and cut out the independents)

I'll take responsibility for my actions servicing my car, I'd like to have the tools I need to get the job done properly.

 

Understood Phil. Not just BMW, just about every manufacturer now has to program modules to integrate replacement. Long gone are the days of picking up a used ECU from a junk yard to try, LOL. Expensive today to throw parts at a problem hoping for a solution, can't be done. That's why all those wrecks that seem minimal damage are in the junkyard, technology!

Best, Brian

 

I would be happy with a unit that allowed me to do only that, well of course I would prefer more and I don't have my 360 yet (8 more days) but I read here that a ODBII system will read most codes so all that is left is PIS, what about a super barebones Leonardo for the owner that can set PIS and that is about all, maybe a few other nice to have bits of info. But $3k for a owner machine seems out of range.

Since my 360 has F1, I will hate taking the car to the shop to set the PIS when I can easily do the clutch myself.

 

Why will you hate taking your car to a workshop to have your PIS adjusted? It's hardly the same as going for a root-canal! Most 'shop owners will gladly adjust your PIS for a very small charge, if i fit a clutch i perform this operation free for my customers. It takes around 10 minutes to do it properely, and if you do it the right way the car should then be road tested and re-checked for drag afterwards...

 

Eddie,

Well for many of us we love the hobby. Unless I was a clutch destroyer the most I could hope for is 4 clutch changes, maybe, during my time of ownership. So a $3000 tool just cost me $750/use if it provides no other function above a generic obd2 reader. Maybe there will be some between clutch changes computer tool tweeking which will drop the cost/use. I have never lived with F1 so I don't know. What would you do, charge me a minimum 1 hr of shop labor for the 10 min job is still what $100 bucks to set PIS? To me that is completely reasonable. It ia way cheaper just to have a shop like you set the PIS. But lets face it, it is a hassle to go to a shop. I would never expect you to drop everything and set my PIS while I waited. That means I got to drive to you, leave the car, get a ride from someone else, come back and pick the car up. Just doing that is going to take 2 hours out of my day. So if I got my own machine I can do the 10 minute thing and just be done with it. Finally, having cool tools is also part of the hobby. Iam always very proud of my giant USAG F1 Ferrari tool box prominantly displayed in my garage.

 

In my case, I was under the initial impression that I could not do the clutch myself since I could not set PIS, I thought I could do the clutch but then I would have to tow the car to a shop to set PIS, now after researching it may be possible to change the clutch and drive the car to the shop, that would be ok with me. Currently the nearest shop is a Ferrari dealer 70 miles away though, I have to find a independent closer. I never looked at 360's and never researched them until AFTER I bought mine, I always wanted the 328 since I can do everything on it. Which reminds me I have to change my profile, its 6 days and counting until I pick up my 360.

 

Guys...i completely agree with you. Why the hell shouldn't you wrench on your own cars and set your clutches up? I'm definately all for it and both you guys know your onions with cars so would doubtlessely have no issue tweaking your clutches. All i was inferring is that sometimes 'shop owners get a rough deal, we aren't all sharks and most of us little guys are passionate enthusiasts who wouldn't charge the earth for setting up a clutch yu have decided to fit ourself rather than get me to do it.

 

I don't want to get off the subject of the Leonardo here...My only issue with having to take the car in for a PIS setting is that my nearest dealer is 70 miles away and I don't know if any independents are local with a SD2 or Leonardo to set the PIS. I also don't own a 360 yet, well technically I do but its still at its previous owners house for 6 more days, so I don't know all the details about someone local, I have no issue with taking it nearby to have the PIS set after I swap the clutch, towing it 70 miles to the dealer I do have a issue with, at that point I will just let them do the clutch.

So a simple really bare bones Leonardo that just plays with one or 2 things that you can't get from a ODBII reader would be good to have. It sounds like the $3k version for the owner mechanic is priced quite high, lets face it with all the electronics in this car I will be taking it to a shop most of the time anyway, I can handle mechanical stuff but once you need the computer a shop is better equipped to handle it. Just something to set PIS is perfect.

 

Just setting the PIS is not the way to set up your clutch. The new closed clutch position needs setting, the PIS adjustment made, then the parameters should be viewed to ensure there are no errors and the input shaft reads zero when in gear at idle. Just setting PIS is the whole reason F1 clutches don't last as long as they should.....

 

well ok, what ever is needed to set the clutch then that is all I want/need

 

This is just another reason why an advanced DIY'er would want to spend the money to do this. Think of it this way 100% of these clutch are being changed by a pro with access to the right tools. Yet as you say "Just setting PIS is the whole reason F1 clutches don't last as long as they should...." and this is at the professional level by now used to using electronic diagnositic tools.

I actually think the more you pros teach us lay people the more we demand more and raise the bar on what is consumer acceptable and do you a favor of driving the bad mechanics out. If you look back at past threads from a 5 years ago nobody talked about timing with a degree wheel and dial guage. No one did a PPI with a leakdown test. Today those are standard issues that few pros did years ago. I'm from the era of the 70/80's where more than one local FNA shops did not own steager tensiometers but some how those belts were factory installed. At that time Pros Setting up timing by the assembly marks was 80% done and 20% lock and swapped with nail polish home made marks. We only used a dial guage and degree wheel for guys racing their cars at the historics.

 

I want to buy a service unit to remove myself from dependency on dealer/shops, but I want it to be full featured for my car. I am sure there is a market for units coded to single models for consumers and universal models for shops. BOE/ Kold Fire has done a great job with this in the Lotus market by selling tools that marry to the ECU for individuals and open license ones for dealers. If the concern is giving consumers too many options, how about let the consumer decide what he wants, warning screens or similar is fine.

As a consumer, I just want a reasonably priced, full function diagnostic tool for the model I own, and I bet other owners just want the same thing.

 

Picture of the " Owner Version - Galileo " seen at SEMA in November along with it's big brother.

From Nick's presentation and description it seems as it would be more than a glorified OBD II.

Still waiting for a roll-out ?
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