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Let me be truly honest.....

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by SoCal to az, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,184
    France
    The F12 has also been the slowest depreciating V12 (ask me how I know - I would own one otherwise ;) ); if you like it or not, it's more about a circumstancial effect of the 2015 speculative bubble (happening exactly when these cars, the 458 and F12, should have begun to suffer significant depreciation) than the intrinsic definition of these cars.
    Some will say it's the 458 being the last NA, the F12 being the last Pininfarina design, but I do not buy it and do not see any hard evidence for these claims. Indeed nothing happens by chance, but interpretation is never obvious - and it's always easy to bend facts to support personal opinions (or interests).
     
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  2. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2015
    1,000
    great color. can't help but notice the color of P1 in the pic. what color is it?
     
  3. scott61

    scott61 F1 Rookie

    Feb 11, 2004
    2,551
    North of Boston
    Car is a very modded 570s, not sure what color is called but we like teasing him by telling him it's not blue and we weren't going to let him him be in our #teamblue picture. This was before I got my 488 and had huracan
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  4. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2015
    1,000
    got me fooled!

    nice team of blue!
     
  5. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
    5,227
    Some value speed, some value the emotion the car gives. No wrong answer.
    I find speed overrated unless tracking often and would much rather have an intoxicating experience.
     
  6. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    3,204
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    #106 Shadowfax, Jul 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
    I value both - but one is lost without the other.

    So for me there is a wrong answer as speed without emotion is an empty experience. Sound is a necessary part of the equation even though some choose to deny it.

    An engine sound is a crucial ingredient in the emotional experience.
     
  7. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2015
    1,000
    I wonder why it seems like a good number of us don't rank handling high.
     
  8. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    3,204
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    #108 Shadowfax, Jul 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
    Because we expect that anyway. So it becomes less mentioned. It's not as if handling isn't a priority in a car like a Ferrari because it is expected. But to sacrifice sound for handling or, vice versa, is in conflict against the intent of the car. A Ferrari without sound is only half a Ferrari. Everyone is free to fool themselves into believing otherwise. Ferrari is banking on the new breed of buyers to believe it. Which is why they are targeting a new breed - in the luxury goods dept.

    And in this dept elements like sound and weight have little to no importance whatsoever. Well Ferrari is hoping so anyway.
     
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  9. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula Junior

    Oct 3, 2017
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    I suspect it’s because modern supercars all handle well, at least for spirited street driving. The grip is far beyond what’s safe to explore on public roads so none of these cars will exhibit bad manners (ie. over or understeer) without driving recklessly. Further, shock tuning and technology has come a long way so even hardcore track variants offer good ride quality. Even the Senna rides reasonably well.

    ‘Steering feel’ seems to be the main area of improvement opportunity since the proliferation of e-pas.
     
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  10. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 9, 2008
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    Agree, handling is very important, but these days, all the Supercars handle almost too well with super technology and electrification - torque vectoring, 4 WS, dynamic steering, etc....
    so really the car is doing all the work and most drivers can’t even feel all the nannies at play.
    Love “handling” in cars with no power steering... Lotus, F40.....


    Sent from my 16M
     
  11. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2015
    1,000
    I agree. I am literally going backward with the pursuit of steering feel, with most recent purchase alfa 4c being manual steering and Lotus Evora 400 sitting in garage being hydraulic. I actually dare to say the steering feel and the chassis control out of all three is best with Lotus, then 4c and then 458. The sound is opposite order of course.

    Is 458 steering electric or hydraulic? I am still not 100% sure.
     
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  12. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Yeah the sound debate is so over. Its like the flat chested girl constantly looking over at her boy friend to make sure he's not lying when he says they look even better than awesome, natural, full sized ones. Really. No one buys a Ferrari for its sound.
     
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  13. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2015
    1,000
    36D 〉〉〉33A.
     
  14. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 Veteran
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    Nov 25, 2012
    8,376
    Arizona
    Look at post #1. Silent majority has spoken. :)
     
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  15. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    6,874
    dunno why folks get so defensive and think this has to be so binary...variety is the spice of life...even have ppl knocking on manuals up in here *smh*; in concert with the right car dynamics a gated shifter is truly sublime.
     
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  16. jag-oo-r

    jag-oo-r Karting

    May 27, 2015
    200
    ::raises hand quietly::

    I did.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
     
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  17. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Rookie
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    The sound does get better with mileage . Also you are playing with the gears as I do always , Stuff petrol usage ! I always approach stopping in 3rd gear also and 10 meters away downshift t 2nd and you get all the burps :) I have fun with the gears and create my own symphony.
     
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  18. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Rookie
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    As a comparison you have more chance being pulled over by a cop just for loud sound taking of the lights , i.e high reving than actually going faster with no sound in a Tesla
     
  19. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2015
    1,000
    this thread is 5 pages now, even without noone1. This proves that we are all very bored! Lol.
     
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  20. john Owen

    john Owen Karting

    Dec 27, 2018
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    John Owen
    Both 458 and F12 have hydraulic steering and 812 has electric steering..Not 100% on the 488 but think its also electric..
     
  21. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    Mar 18, 2014
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    Nuno
    I have no problem with that, but if the alleged silent majority doesn’t value sound, how do we reconcile that with how the market appreciates the 458? Is the market driven by minorities?

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
  22. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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  23. scott61

    scott61 F1 Rookie

    Feb 11, 2004
    2,551
    North of Boston
    Yep with enough driving you learn how to get the best sound out of car.This thread is making it sound, pun intended, like the the 488 is an electric car. Does the 458 sound better, yea. does the 488 sound like a Tesla? No. 488 sounds different than a 458 but it's still a V8 ICE. Plug the valves and drive the car properly and it sounds great.
     
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  24. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 Veteran
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    Nov 25, 2012
    8,376
    Arizona
    silent majority has no problem with sound. It’s just they don’t value sound over everything else. In other words sound isn’t the primary thing they look for in a car.

    silent majority believes that the sound in the 488 is good enough that it warrants selecting the car over the 458. Same with Pista.

    no one is saying the sound in the 458 isn’t epic. It is. But it doesn’t make me want to own a slower older car.
     
  25. ferrarifam

    ferrarifam Rookie

    Jun 9, 2020
    26
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    Adam
    Now this was the best description and comparison ever.
     

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