News

Let us pray for all the people on all of the F1 teams...

Discussion in 'F1' started by Tifoso1, Jun 3, 2005.

  1. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,572
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    From F1racing.net

    The FIA has told F1 team bosses to 'remember their responsibilities' and put driver safety first amid concern over tyre failures. The warning comes after Raikkonen's tyre problem at the Nurburgring caused his suspension to fail at high speed. Although Raikkonen could have pitted for a replacement tyre, to do so would have lost him a race win.

    "It should not be forgotten that a mechanical failure at high speed may involve a degree of risk to the spectators," FIA president Max Mosley said in a letter sent to team bosses on Wednesday. "If you are in any doubt about your car, you should always call it in. If you are still in doubt after checking the car in the pits you should retire it from the race."

    Mosley added that race stewards could as a last resort order a car into the pits if they felt it was too dangerous. Mosley has also written to both Michelin and Bridgestone to ask them to ensure their tyres remain reliable.


    To me, this press release is simply irresponsible. I guess Mosley and FIA are clearing themselve of any responsibilities if anything should happen. FIA created a rule that has never been and is nearly impossible to enforce, and now they want the teams to make the "sensible" judgement call on if they should bring their cars in for a tyre change? Did he just step into the world of F1 yesterday? Yes, I am sure that all the team bosses and drivers will bring their cars in on the last lap while leading the race to the flag to change their tyres and thus ended up with no points instead of taking the risk of winning the race. Another perfect example why politicians needs to stay as politicians and not administrators.
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

    Oct 17, 2004
    5,690
    New York, NY
    Full Name:
    Luis


    Yes, I think it's time to get rid of the one tyre rule. Either that or eliminate the penalties for changing in case of a problem, maybe they should allow one change at least....
     
  4. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
    Ex-Urbia
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Sounds like this is as close to an admission of failure as we can expect from 'ol Max and the FIA. We've know for some time that Max is a bit of a one-trick show when it comes to change in F1--"Go after the tires!"
     
  5. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

    Oct 17, 2004
    5,690
    New York, NY
    Full Name:
    Luis

    Yes, first the stupid grooves now one tire per race. You wanna slow the cars down take away the paddle shift and bring back totaly manual gearboxes. That would slow them down a bit and put more of the driver back into it.
     
  6. Koby

    Koby Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
    2,300
    The Borough, NJ
    Full Name:
    Jason Kobies
    how about they can change any one tire during a fuel stop and that tire must still must be presented to Whiting to prove it was necessary
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. winston

    winston Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    139
    foothills
    Full Name:
    don
    How about letting the teams use another full set of tires. This would return some of the drama and more safety to the series.
    Winston
     
  9. pistole

    pistole Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2005
    754
    Malaysia
    think for a moment.

    under the old tyre rules , would Raikonnen have been called in to change
    a flat-spotted tyre if it could have cost him his win ?

    probably not , ya ?
     
  10. tfazio

    tfazio Formula 3
    Classified Subscribed

    Apr 20, 2004
    1,858
    Michigan
    I think someone else mentioned it before but allow tire changes only if you can't change fuel at that time. So basically you would have to make two stops if you wanted new tires.
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    19,999
    socal
    I don't get the one tire rule. It is stupid and unsafe. If they want to slow cars then nix the power and that will conserve some tire but one tire makes no sence to me.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,572
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    Under the old tyre rule, KR and the team would not have been in that situation to begin with, as he would have had new tyres put on the car during his first pitstop thus eliminate this from even happening. If he had flat spotted his tyres after the first stop, he would have had them replaced again during his second pitstop, thus again, minimized and eliminated this situation from happening. Even if he flat spotted the tyre after his second stop, he will probably ended up with an ill-handling car instead of a suspension failure that clearly had put not only his life but other fellow drivers' lives in danger.
     
  14. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,892
    So much for safety of the driver being the number one concern of the FIA. The FIA and bernie only care for one thing. They want to make sure that at the end of the year Ferrari do not win the world championship again. It does not matter if drivers are risking their lives and it does not matter if anyone is injured.

    Disgraceful!
     
  15. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 27, 2004
    13,970
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jim Pernikoff
    I think the teams should be required to pick their tire compound before qualifying, as they must at present.

    Then, after qualifying, they should be able to change the tires to a new set with the identical compound. The old Sunday-morning warmup session would be renewed so that the teams may scrub in these new tires, with a strict limit as to the number of laps allowed per car.

    By requiring the qualifying tires to be the same compound as the race tires, it eliminates the old farce of special qualifying rubber.

    This would allow the teams to start the race with a set of almost-new tires, which then should be able to complete the race without difficulty. Of course, it's still up to the drivers to avoid lock-up and flat-spotting.
     
  16. pistole

    pistole Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2005
    754
    Malaysia
    Raikonnen , or more specifically , his team , took a risk and it didn't
    pay off.


    notice they're not complaining.

    its all of you who are complaining , obviously since Ferrari are dead this
    season.
     
  17. davel

    davel Guest

    How about letting the teams pick the tires, race with them and then change them to a different compound even, if they feel the need. You know....racing.
     
  18. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,572
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    It would appear that you are not as well informed as you think. Have you been following the recent news being reported since the European GP? The tyre safety issue has been brought up more than once and by more than just people in the Bridgestone's camp. After seeing what happened to KR, and if you still don't think that this one tyre set rule is a liability, then I guess you are just like Max and the rest of the brass in FIA, you have to wait until someone actually gets killed before you will admit that this rule is putting everyone involved in F1 racing in danger.
     
  19. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    There have always been random tyre failures in F1. That's what happens when manufacturers push the limits of the compounds versus durability. Or sometimes the failures are caused by debris or damage to the tyre as a result of contact.

    One tyre rule or no one tyre rule, the risk of a random tyre failure will always exist.

    In fact Raikkonen's accident wasn't even caused by a tyre failure, but rather the suspension failing under braking as a result of factors covered previously in this thread and on other forums many times.

    You can never make racing completely safe. The element of danger (within reason) is something which actually adds to the appeal of motor racing and makes it more exciting. Measures can be implemented to reduce the risk, but at some point the sporting impact those measures have needs to be taken into consideration. In the end, if you can't accept the risk then don't go racing.
     
  20. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,892
    The FIA only consider "safety" issues when it works for them.
    After Ratzenberger's and Senna's death, it was time to bring on the safety doctors to "fix" F1. Not because of the driver but to save face in the eyes of the public.
    Now in the intrest of the public and racing fans, safety is been put on the back burner. The FIA realize that some teams will take the risk and push the envelope further. That will result in crashes and diffferent winners. Supposedly that is great racing and is not boring!

    Bunch of BS in the name of earning more ratings on TV!
     
  21. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,572
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    True, there will always be a potential for accidents that are caused by tyre failure, but that does not mean we can or should ignor a known trobule spot and pretend that it is not there, that it is okay. Yes, the drivers and the teams knows the risks involved, but they should not be set-up and just sit there and wait for a funeral to happen. By your definition, there will be no need for any sort of safety devices, why don't we let them go back to leather helmets and a pair of goggles, and why the seat belts and the Han's device? It is FIA's job to ensure the drivers and the teams to be able to compete under the safest possible enviroment, is it not? Please don't tell me that you are so blood lusted after so call competition and are willing to toss all the warning signs away. With all due respect, I have seen enough posts from you and I expect a heck of a lot more than that from you.

    It is also true that KR's accident was not caused directly by a tyre failure, the suspension was shattered under braking from repeated stress that was caused by a bad tyre that could have been easily prevented by allowing tyre changes during pit stops. Yes, all tyres can go back, one tyre rule or not, but by setting a one tyre rule, you are forcing and making the teams to make a very difficult and logical choice when the sport itself is relatively illogical by nature. To take a known risk in anything requires a more passionate plead than logic, we would not have a F1 or any auto racing to watch or to follow if passion was not involved, thus the rule is creating a situation that has a greater potential of harm to them.

    PS: Not to side track things, but think about it like this, Ferrari did the logical thing in the past, by having a clearly defined #1 driver and a #2 driver, which is logical as it ensures them the greatest chance of capturing both world titles. Why the uproar by the FIA and the fans? they are only doing what is sensible, aren't they? Rules are fine lines to guide the teams by, once a line is crossed, it becomes a rule that drivers can die by. I for one, do not wish to see another F1 driver involved in a fatal accident that is completely preventable, that should be rightfully prevented.
     
  22. pistole

    pistole Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2005
    754
    Malaysia

    1. if you're gonna take the attitude that its the FIA's /Mosley / Bernie,
    whatever's duty to ensure that all F1 drivers are as safe as possible , then
    there's alot more than tyres you all should be talkin about. Think.

    2. notice that Raikonnen is a RACING DRIVER. He's not some armchair
    racer.
     
  23. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,572
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    1) *L* If it is not their responsiblity as the governing body of F1, then who's responsibility is it? Yes, it is true that there are a lot more than just tyres that they have to worry about, hence track updates and revisions, but that doesn'w mean they can or should ignor the tyre issue, right? You tell me to think, and I respectfully return the ball back to your court.

    2) KR IS a racer, and FIA should let him "race" and not put him in a situation that he is only a step away from being put inside a wooden box. Accidents happen, murder does not just happen. IMO, the rule as it stands now, if something does happen, the blood will be on FIA's hands. F1 World had already lost a great driver like Senna, I do not ever want to see another driver loosing their life on the track knowing that it is prefectly preventable.
     
  24. murph7355

    murph7355 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
    1,691
    SE England Yorkie
    Full Name:
    Andy
    I don't want to see another driver killed either.

    But to say the FIA would have blood on its hands is going a bit far I think.

    As has been mentioned, drivers are a step away from death every time they race. They accept the risks.

    The teams and component manufacturers know the rules before they set out, and should build their cars/components to suit the rules.

    Where does it end? Does F1 change to become a bunch of guys running round in foam filled 2CVs with a 20mph speed limiter?

    The sport, in my eyes, pushes all technical boundaries and tests the teams and their drivers to the absolute limit. Things go wrong when you are at the limit.

    If anything, Michelin and Bridgestone should be looking closely at the rules and developing tyres that aren't completely shot 2/3s of the way through a race. But therein lies the challenge of F1. If a tyre is still in perfect condition after the race is over, has it been working hard enough...etc.

    The FIA should keep their mouths shut. I don't see what good their statement does for anyone. They'd be better off spending their energy on making the sport more compelling to watch (making cars more driveable and consistent when travelling closely to another car would help. And tyres won't help here).
     
  25. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,572
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    I agree that the tyre manufactures needs to re-evaluate their tyres. However, at the same time, they need to remain competitive. Again, you are trying to force a logical solution into a illogical situation where too many factors are involved as during a race. Ideally, everything FIA is trying to do makes sense, but the question is, is it do able and how practical is it?

    For example, when you give consent to get a flu shot, do you want the needle to be clean or used? Thank god that there are laws that dictates a clean needle must be used, don't you think? It is a law that says one per person, not one for every two people. At one point, doctors were "sterilizing" the use needles over open flame so they can use it again. That was quickly changed, as we soon found out that it is not the smartest thing to do.

    As in this case, needless to say, all drivers understands and are willing to take the risk, thus choose a career in auto-racing, but it is the governing body's (FIA in this case) job to ensure that they can go about it safely. Just as it is OSHA's job to try to keep a work enviroment as safe as possible. To try to shift the blame elsewhere is irresponsible. Yes, there are calculated risk, but then there are just plain stupid-ass rules and I think this one tyre rule falls right into that catagory.
     
  26. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    I've said this so many times before but it never ceases to lose its portence: Mosely and the FIA are idiots and to the best of their efforts, have managed to mangle F1 into a political excercise and not the world's premier form of motorsport.
     
  27. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 27, 2004
    13,970
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jim Pernikoff
    But was Jean-Marie Balestre any better? I think not!
     
  28. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
    Ex-Urbia
    Full Name:
    Jack
    This kind of reminds me of the Simpsons episode about the boy in the well.

    For those that don't watch, Bart pretends to fall down a well by throwing a walkie-talkie down and then calling for help. The whole town rallies around him and, after much hilarity, rescues him. Later, to ensure nobody every falls down the well again, the town puts up a sign that says "Danger. Well"
     

Share This Page