"Lets put a SB V8 into it"

Fitting a small block (Chevrolet, typically) was a very common practice in the 1950's.
More successful? Anecdotally, I would defer to Branko (elmotorizado) for answers in South American road races. Other than that, not that I know of.

How would it be viewed historically?
I believe I can speak on behalf of Ferrari, the IACPFA, all sanctioning bodies, restorers, owner/collectors, mechanics, enthusiasts, and members of Fchat with the possible exception of two Australians (lol)...
A crime against humanity that needs to be rectified post haste. Yes, even if it means commissioning Classiche to build you an overpriced motor.

Just my two cents, as some like to say.

Best,
Dave

 

Quote: "A crime against humanity that needs to be rectified post haste."

Bob Z.

 

Bob,

Remember where you are- this is FERRARIchat.
Res Ipsa Loquitor

LOL

Best,
Dave

 

Hi, Dave - I know where I am but I still do not understand!!!

Bob Z.

 

Bob,

The first two parts of my original post (#2) were straight answers, but the third part- which you referenced- was a remark I made tongue in cheek.
My inspiration was the fact that while, as Napolis has spelled out in other posts, 'the chassis is the car'.. I feel many (including Enzo himself) will agree that the engine is the heart of any Ferrari.
Have there been any successes using small block V8s in Ferraris? As I mentioned earlier, I would suggest someone searching competition records for cars raced in South America. There may have been wins in American airport and/or sports car racing as well.

Best,
Dave

 

My curiosity got the best of me. A crime against humanity implies something pretty serious, not to mention illegal.

In this case, it refers to an engine swap. Since when is that a crime? Seems like it was nothing more than a fellow exercising his right to do as he wishes with his own property.

But, in that vein, here's an interesting story.

My home town is Vineland, NJ where there was, at one time a great little race track, the Vineland Speedway. While hosting various SCCA and similar events, there was even an occasional high end competition, with cars like Can-Am/Group 7.

Anyhow, in the summer of 1964, we were campaigning a Triumph TR3A in SCCA, H- production as I recall. There were quite a few people racing on minimal budgets and some rather dubious looking cars, making one wonder how they ever got through tech inspection.

At a particular race, a guy showed up with an incredibly battered Ferrari roadster. I have no idea what model it was but definitely a V12, with three carbs and no air filter. It was mostly red with a dark blue stripe on the hood and I've never seen pictures of anything similar. It was right hand drive and had what looked like a fiberglass shell type bucket seat. The battery was inside, on the left hand floor. During practice, he was really pushing it and we could hear the engine even when we were back in the pits. At one point, all the noise stopped and after a few minutes, the wrecker went out. No emergency vehicles so it was probably a mechanical failure or he went off-road and got stuck. Sure enough, the car was towed back to the pits, looking no worse than it did earlier (and believe me, it really looked bad!) so at least he didn't flip it.

The owner (we later found out that he was from the Trenton, NJ area and had an almost unpronounceable Polish name) was livid, complaining about the terrible luck he was having, all centered around various engine problems. From what I gathered, the timing chain had broken. Stating that he was fed up with the V12, he asked if anyone in town could help him out, in particular, to swap in an American V8, preferably a Chevy small block. My uncle Ray and his two cousins, Alan and Len jumped at the opportunity. As it turns out, Ray had, in his collection of dubiously legal auto parts, a late 50s Corvette engine, equipped with two 4-barrel carbs and a three-speed transmission. Al and Len were top-notch mechanics, having built a number of successful SCCA sports racing cars. They offered to swap the engine/transmission into the Ferrari. The price? $500.00 AND the Ferrari engine/transmission. After a bit of haggling, they arrived at a figure and made a deal. The car was hauled over to Ray's house on Landis Ave while the cousins went and picked up tools and assorted hardware. They worked on the car continuously from around noon till the following morning. Recruiting help from a few of the local mechanics, they actually got the job done, the most difficult part being the driveshaft. I did not see the work but apparently they grafted the rear section of the Ferrari driveshaft to the front section of the Chevy's. None of the original gages worked - not part of the deal. They rigged makeshift ammeter, oil pressure and water temperature gages into a crude bracket and mounted it under the dash. Probably from the local Pep-Boys store. I don't remember much about the exhaust system other than it was extremely loud and apparently dumped right onto the ground somewhere under the engine.

They delivered the car and the owner tried it immediately. He didn't even check with the officials to see how the car would be reclassified - obviously the swapped engine would put it into a modified class. On the first lap, Ray said that he went off the track twice. Seems that the Chevy engine really changed the handling and the owner wisely decided not to attempt to race it. Late in the summer, he showed up at Vineland with a beautiful rear engined Lotus, a 19 I believe. He mentioned that he had no interest in racing the Ferrari and planned to sell it. That was the last we heard of him or the car.

The engine was put in Ray's shed and sat there for a number of years. His son Tommy bought the house from him in the 70s. The engine was still there but one of the cousins, probably Len, removed the transmission and carbs and traded them for a BSA racing motorbike. Last I heard, he still owned it and rode it occasionally.
Tommy sold the house in the late 80s and he gave the engine to a guy named Terry Babboni, who stored it in a garage on Chestnut Avenue, near Myrtle Street. When I visited Vineland in the early 90s, I asked Tommy about the engine. He had no idea of it's condition or whereabouts but after speaking to one of Terry' friends, I found out that a guy from White Plains, NY bought the engine, or what was left of it. Seems that it had been stripped of all accessories including the generator, starter, distributors and exhaust headers. I was told that a man from a Ferrari dealership in Philadelphia (ALGAR?) paid $400.00 for the accessories but had no interest in the engine itself.

I had a shoebox full of pictures stored at my parents house. There were many of the TR3A at Vineland and probably some of the Ferrari. If my brother still has them, I will see what I can find, then scan them. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable people here on F-Chat can track down some history.

Bob Z.

ps - Google Vineland Speedway - there some interesting photos but sadly, most of them are from stock car racing.

 

Oscar's 750 Monza. I drove that car with it's SB Chevy. Went like a bat out of hell. Wanted to buy it in 1969. Ask was 2K and the original motor and gearbox was available for $500.

Didn't have the money...

 

Jim: Do you mean Oscar Kovaleski or another Oscar.

I thought Oscar K was from Scranton PA, but I suppose he could have lived in Trenton NJ at some point as well. I remember him as a colorful personality from the olde days.

Perhaps a long-lost member of the PRDA.

 

The 750 Monza that had the Chevy engine that I drove was ex Oscar Kovaleski. I assumed it was the one Bob was talking about maybe not.

I do remember PRDA.

 

I can't speak for the v-12s, but the four cylinder Ferrari motors were regularly yanked out and replaced w/ cheaper and more available american v-8 power. If the Navy had not sent my dad to viet nam in 65, he was considering installing the Offenhauser 3-liter alum v-8 in the Mondial.

Off the top of my head, only 3 of the 9 Series II Mondials still have their original motors. I know several more of the 9 have either been re-united w/ their motors, or now at least have the correct tipo motor installed, or have a Ferrari 4-cyl motor of another tipo (i.e., from a 500 TRC). We helped re-unite 0538M w/ its 3-liter motor about 17 years ago - it was also running an american V-8.

Bob, my dad ran an SCCA Regional at Vineland in May of 1964.

 

Here's the car I drove and tried to buy in 67 or 68.

http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/0588m.857sport.htm

 

wow, great driver history! including . . . . Andy Warhol??!? Assuming it was the artist Andy Warhol, I learned something new today - had no idea that Warhol had owned a competition Ferrari - I just can't see him driving it. did you try to buy it from him? or another owner?

 

I'm not sure that that timeline is exactly correct. I was offered the car in 67 or 68. It was red. Andy Warhol did live in Long Island which is where I saw the car. The then owner was Philip Van Scoy Smith someone I eventually bought my Lola from in 72. By then the Ferrari was gone. On to Andy? Could be.

 

Hello, all - first off, it was definitely NOT Oscar Koveleski. He would NEVER have shown up with a car that looked that bad!

And, remember, the engine that was removed was a V-12, not an inline 4.

Bryan - I was not at the Vineland track in May. I was still in engineering school in Indiana. Most of the time we spent at the track was between June and September of 1964.

Now, here's something to consider - was it really a Ferrari or just some sort of strange homebuilt on a Ferrari chassis with Ferrari badges? It was definitely metal - many dents attested to that.

Another question - are there any open Ferrari racers and/or engines that are not accounted for?

Bob Z.

 

Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I worked all those SoCal races as a turn marshal and of course had met Carroll, Richie and Jack, and remember the car. And of course the Polish Race-Drivers Assn. and it's assorted goof-balls. And the final name of Jean-Claude: it was on his arm that my eyes first fell on the young lady I called "Cherie" in my story about "Hotel Niles", which I think you can find in the archives of FCA SW Region magazine Sempre Ferrari; just google it.

 

Hi, Ed.
What ever happened to Oscar? As I recall, his company was called Autoworld and located somewhere near Scranton, PA.

We had spoken on the phone on numerous occasions but I never met him in person.
Really interesting guy.

Bob Z.

 

http://forums.autosport.com/lofiversion/index.php/t61578.html