Lets start a petition to Ferrari to let RB race

You "think"! I bet that hurts your knees!
Have you read the contract? Do you have a copy of it? MS and Rubens do race. If you choose not to look at it, it is your issue.

 

RB usually has a few races a year where he is psyched up to race (e.g. Brazil). This year is tougher because MS is just unstoppable. RB never had, and never will have, the race pace to beat MS over the course of a season. Team orders aside, (and F1 is a team sport), RB just isn't as fast over a race distance. Its unfortunate that the ridiculous points structure make him appear closer to MS than he really is.

 

RB dominates practice....qualifies on pole...looked fantastic all weekend...and then backs off during the race...

complete bull**** to anyone that was watching...


The days of Senna and Prost on McLaren were awesome...too bad current F1 fans have to put up with this watered down racing....

 

I said it before and I say it again:

Napoleon Todt will let Rubens race once the title is secured. That will nicely coincide with the Brazilian GP.

Rubens will win the Brazilian GP, even if that means Michael has to drive backwards.

As far as the petition goes: How about one asking for MS' retirement to have the sport back?

 

With F1 moving from Europe to more remote (and more cig-ads friendly) venues, I have this mental issue of some local politician with the trophy on the podium, seeing Rubens on the top step, looking around in confusion, and whining, "They told me I'd get to give this to Michael".

Rubens has been lucky in that he hasn't had to come from the back due to mechanical problems, but unlucky in that most people seem to have forgotten that he can come from the back.

If Rubens wasn't in Michael's shadow, we'd be talking about how wonderful Rubens was in the Ferrari. But then, if Rubens wasn't in Michael's shadow, Rubens might not be at Ferrari, and without Michael's Benneton team, Ferraris might not be winning.

I think Canada spelled it out: When Rubens was all over Michael's tail, Rubens needed to go faster to get second. But Michael didn't need to go any faster to get first. And Michael didn't go any faster. Thus: Rubens is a great driver and a team player. Michael is a really great driver, and isn't such a team player. (But heck, it's Michael's team.)

Consider the pass attempt at Indy, when Michael slammed the door, and Rubens locked up avoiding "Dr Chop". If Michael and Rubens had hit, spinning them both off, who would have gotten the heat? Michael for slamming the door, or Rubens for trying the pass?

But I still lay Ruben's being in second on Rubens not going fast enough before the pits. He got down to some 70.5 laps, but he needed 70.0s or 69.9s to match the way Michael fast laps before pitting. Traffic or debris may be involved -- the local coverage didn't show. (Coverage was on all the other cars in the pits.)

 

What are F'n CRAZY!!!!

I for one have not forgotten how much Scuderia Ferrari absolutely SUCKED
hind teat in the post turbo/pre Ross Brawn era. I would not want those times to return.

RB is agreat number two, but he's a bridesmaid.

Actually, the F2004 is number two in the field. Even Scato would be number two in the standings.

If MS were to drop out and the Scuderia were to hire someone else, RB would still be second fiddle. Even if the roles were reversed and RB had it on paper he was number one, no doubt in my mind he'd be holding back whoever was number two.

 

And you know everything that happens in F1? And you know what everyone is thinking all of the time? WOW! You should get a 1900 # and tell the future.
Weak!

 

So there it's over. How can RB race MS when Rubins is an average diver who makes a lot of mistakes.

You go back and fourth ever post. Weak!

 

If RB lifted or used the brakes. There would be no reason to take 1st away from MS. You can't do that, that close to the line. Now if they were coming out of the last turn {a mile away from the line} then it would be the thing to do. Keep on trying you will one day have a valid point.

 

And you know this for fact? Tell us how?

 

Again tell us how you know this to be fact. Do you have a copy of this contract to share?

 

Guys, to me it looked like Rubens was pushing, even to the point of which he nearly rammed MS. At this point I think it was in both of their best interests to just finish the race.

Can you imagine what would happen if the 1st and 2nd place cars KO each other out on top of being on THE SAME TEAM?!

 

The WC would stay open a little longer.

 

It seems so obvious to some of us that Rubens is not seen as a threat by Michael. This is either because Rubens has inferior skill in comparison to Michael or because Michael knows Rubens can't pass him for some other reason. There is a significant amount of footage this season of Michael NOT protecting his line when followed by Rubens.

I personally feel both are the case. Rubens is a nice guy and has chosen to be in the position he is in. He is not of the calibre of a Schumacher or some of the others on the grid today. Reverse the situation yesterday when MS passed Rubens at the re-start. If Rubens was "slingshoting" past MS as a result of the draft, do you think he would have gotten by?

I like Rubens but feel some of the best F1 competition has been taken away from us because Ferrari has manipulated the sport. The situation yesterday with the safety car and Rubens slowing the field down is just one more example. I am getting embarassed at what Michael Schumacher and Ferrari are doing to the sport and it is cheapening any accomplishments both of them are making IMO.

Andy

 

Yes, I've imagined it; and it would be called competition. This is Formula One - not Professional Wrestling.

 

I agree with all your points. All true IMHO.

However this ain't new. It is team tactics and has been played by other teams as well. Whether all this is necessary is debatable since Ferrari is so totally and utterly dominating this season. Reminds me of the Zeltweg scandal a couple of years ago. Same deal.

Ferrari is the best car and MS the best driver and their lead is dominating. So why playing games? Because Todt wants it that way. Napoleon.

 

I would agree and doubt Michael and Ross are upset at what he is doing. We are in for a tough future because I would have to think that when they all step down from active competition they will all be in management positions within the organization and pulling exactly the same strings in exactly the same way.

Andy

 

One of the reasons many folks are not impressed with Michael despite his overwhelming talent and achievements is the lack of sportsmanship. In Zeltweg he didn't even realize what he just did to the sport, to Rubens and his own image. Only when the fans booed and whistled he got the message. Todt didn't even get it then.

I think of Ross Brawn as a very good chap. I can't imagine he is in on the fix. Obviously he has to accept it as Todt calls the shots.

As far as their retirement is concerned, I'm not too worried: MS and Brawn will leave the Scuderia and Todt run the overall enterprise (like Montezuma right now). Somebody else will take over, but I bet it will be like a fresh wind.

 

Wait, let me get this straight, you would rather both cars out of the race then getting a 1-2? *confused* I thought we, being Ferrari fans, wanted Ferrari to win?

 

Winning at all costs? When there is nothing really at stake anymore?
Not me.

 

As with others on this site, I have followed Ferrari for many many years. I have had the hollow feeling from watching Ferrari go 21 years without a win. But I also have had the hollow feeling from seeing the records set by true individuals broken by through what appears to be sure collusion by two people. The history books will not be kind to Michael's 6th and 7th World Championships IMO.

Andy

 

Wait... is F1 a team sport or not?

If not, then the comments in this thread make sense.
HOWEVER, if this is a team sport, then it should be no great surprise that when two drivers have actually agreed to act like a team that they get fantastic results. Similarly, when two drivers like RS and JPM do not agree to act like a team, then they get inferior results.

I like the fact that F1 is a team sport. I like to see Rubens carrying MS at times; and I like to see MS helping RB. I like the extra strategy complexity of the teams. I like that team Ferrari was so quick as to call RB to slow down to time perfectly his arrival in the pit with MS's departure. In that way it did not cost RB anything relative to the rest of the field, but nearly locked the race for MS.

Will history frown on MS's accomplishments because of team tactics. I don't think so... I think it will ensure that the record-setting is depicted as a team triumph, not just an individual one... and that is how it should be!

So, is F1 a team sport, or not???

 

I believe that Formula 1 has always been a team sport. Its history is full of examples of team orders, including McLaren in Australia in 1998. In fact, back in the 1950s when the rules allowed it, drivers were occasionally ordered (or volunteered) to give up their cars to their retired team-mate in order to give him a chance to compete for the title.

 

Great question Brian and maybe one for a thread all its own. IMHO when F1 is remembered more for the team that won the Constructor's Championship than it is for the Driver who won the World Championship then it will be a team sport. Until that time, an individual trying to differentiate himself from the rest (his teammate included) he isn't competing in a team sport. Again, this is only my opinion and we all know what opinions are like . . .

Andy