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Lewis and ferrari talks

Discussion in 'F1' started by Jackie and bill, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

    Jun 6, 2011
    9,496
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    Yes..but some of us still remenber , and know it aint so...Jimmy won 2, and he was streets ahead of any driver we could see after Michael....Senna had 3, and i could say the same, Moss and Gilles had none, and they were so much better than any of these "multiple champions".....
     
  2. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,449
    We have not seen Lewis in a car that is not front row material.
    We have seen Seb is simply no good if the car is not front row material.

    We have also seen the Lewis is easier on his tires than just about anyone.
    We have seen the Ferrari is very hard on its tires.
    Which is the kind of racing one gets with the current rule structure (and tires).
     
  3. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
    1,091
    Lewis 2009 car was not front row material
    Currently Seb is no good even if the car is front row material
     
  4. ChadR

    ChadR Karting

    Jun 19, 2019
    202
    I disagree with that. Michael was a good driver, but he didn't dominate really in any other car. Michael used to complain about Senna's ontrack games he would play. There are youtube videos on it.
     
  5. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

    Jun 6, 2011
    9,496
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    I guess we saw diferent races.....
     
  6. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    Formula one fan since 1984 I only saw four drivers able to win on a non dominant car ( Prost 1986 ) Senna ( 1991, 1993) Schumacher ( 1995, 1996,1997, 1998 ) Alonso ( 2010 and of course 2012 )
    Hamilton isn't one of them , facts
     
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  7. ChadR

    ChadR Karting

    Jun 19, 2019
    202
    Wow, Renault and Ferrari in the mid to late 90s weren't good cars?
    What defines a "dominant car"?
    F1 cars have very similar design every year, shared engine manufacturers, close aero profiles and technology.

    Hamilton or Elton" didn't only win at Petronas amg...

    But as I say, I don't agree, but you might be right.
     
  8. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    A dominant car ?
    Let's say 1986 Williams FW11 against Prost mclaren MP4 -2b
    Or all the Mercedes since the hybrid era beginning.
    Senna winning five races with a mclaren ford in 1993 against Williams /Renault demonstrates he is a GOAT contender etc ..

    Hamilton rookie year or silverstone 2008 was impressive but not enough to reach next level.
    To do that he should go to Ferrari and win world championship against Leclerc
     
  9. ChadR

    ChadR Karting

    Jun 19, 2019
    202
    How is it possible for AMG Petronas to have a dominant car for so long over Ferrari, Renault and Mclaren?

    You don't find that hard to believe?
    You can't even get a mid engine sports car out of them on the street, only Hamilton with his project one.
     
  10. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    Completely agree
    Mercedes sports car range is absolutely not comparable with the Ferrari range ( quality wise either )
    I am sure project one will be a failure because of its too radical engine for road use.
    This Mercedes formula one team is without a doubt the strongest in the history.
    The way I see it :
    Huge huge financial investments since the beginning with first power unit studies in 2007 ( dixit Lauda)
    Very efficient way of working without politics inside the team ( kudos to Ross Brawn , toto and Michael)
    And I suspect some hidden help from the engineers in Stuttgart when needed.
     
    ChadR likes this.
  11. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
    1,091
    I'm guessing you didn't pay attention to Hamilton's career. As Alonso said, Hamilton proved great after he won in the 2009 car which was a dog. Then went to Mercedes in 2013 and won a race, that car also wasn't dominant. Before that he won the champion 2008 in a car that was not dominant (his team mate finished 7th in championship)
     
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  12. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    Of course he is a great driver but we are talking about GOAT there, and others contenders are Fangio ,Clark ,Stewart, Lauda ,Prost ,Senna and Schumacher.
     
  13. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
    1,091
    That's your view, cool. But i'm curious, what makes you disagree with Brawn, Alonso, Rosberg, and countless other F1 personnel that say Ham is a great?
     
  14. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    Ok he is great, no problem with that but to what extend ?
    I can't compare him with Prost for instance who accepted to compete with Lauda or Senna in the same team.
    Winning another title with this wonderful war machine ( Mercedes) isn't an exploit anymore , beating a weak teammate like Bottas neither.
    i am sorry for Hamilton's fans but he need something else to reach History ( maybe winning a world championship with Ferrari ? )
     
  15. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
    1,091
    Ham has already done enough to be a great, every F1 great does it differently, its more than one way to become a great. Neither Prost, Senna, Schumi or Lauda beat a two time champion team mate their rookie year as Hamilton did, Shumi never had a year with a champion team mate. Ham is known by some as the fastest man F1 has seen because of his pole records, not to mention other records. There are some F1 greats that we all love for sure, Senna, Schumi, Prost, they all did it different, which is great!
     
  16. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    6,525
    #217 freshmeat, Dec 13, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
    I don't like Hamilton, but I respect his accomplishments. Is he a great? Statistically sure everyone can agree on that. Subjectively though, I'm sure many will disagree...unless you're a brit. Has Hamilton been able to captivate the world and pull people into the sport like Schumacher, Senna, Lauda etc?

    I hardly think so...and he's played every card in his hand: the ethnic-minority card, the grew-up-poor card, rap-pop-culture card etc many will argue all of those cards are utter horsesh*t (I'm of this thought) but that's a separate convo/thread to be had...
     
  17. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    Obviously you are in love !
    Good for you
    Honestly I would appreciate to see him in Ferrari for 2021 fighting against Charles for world championship.
     
  18. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
    1,091
    I would have to disagree on this, my wife didn't know any other F1 driver name until Hamilton came. Here is a video of people in Ghana watching Hamilton win, I didn't see this variety of audience during Shumi years
    https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/SportsArchive/Lewis-Hamilton-stunned-by-viral-video-of-Ghanaians-celebrating-his-win-769941
     
  19. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    6,525
    I didn't say he hasn't pulled in a new audience; I'm saying he hasn't captivated at the scale of his predecessors. Using 1 lone group and a one-off use-case (your wife) to represent the full scale is nothing short of silly and a complete farce.
     
  20. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
    1,091
    Again i disagree, i see a lot of variety and followers of Ham- young F1 fans, old F1 fans, celebrities, social media followers, different ethnic groups, etc than when Schumi was racing. So yes Ham has much captivation. Give me a quick example of his predecessors captivation exceeding this
     
  21. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    6,525
    1 quick example:
    I doubt Hamilton has much captivation even in the uk comparatively speaking. Even when Senna was alive, people who didn't follow the sport knew of his name:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-7712015/SPECIAL-REPORT-Ayrton-Senna-adored-Brazil-25-years-death.html

    You should see the craze he got in Japan...next level.

    And mind you this was a time way before social media and the internet; and yet his predecessors reached far and wide which makes it far more remarkable than Hamilton, far far more. And they didn't have to play the bogus race card, the grew up poor card nor the rap-celebrity card.
     
  22. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    Agree
    All this hype around Hamilton looks fake like social medias , completely artificial.
    The day he loses he will immediately be mocked because of his way of life.
     
  23. ktu

    ktu Formula 3

    May 30, 2012
    1,091
    #224 ktu, Dec 13, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
    Was Senna playing the bogus Brazilian card?
    Lol yes Senna is a huge figure, he died dramatically as a Champion. This adds to his whole aura, its like an advantage. No other F1 drivers career ended as a champion like he did. Ham is not even retired yet, most champions receive the most accolades 20 30 years after they retire or die. But his accolades will be different from Senna's, different from Schumi's etc. Every Champion's legacy/story is different. You mentioned people who don't follow the sport knew of Senna's name. Should i remind you how many people who never watched F1 now know of Hamilton?! lol Surely it would take all day
     
  24. ChadR

    ChadR Karting

    Jun 19, 2019
    202
    All this talk about Hamilton...Ferrari need to just tag me in. Me and Leclerc will bring home the constructors and he can have the championship. Just give me a 458 italia, an f50, a Roma and a fat salary and we good. I double as a mechanical engineer also, so I'll be okay on car setup.
     
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