Lewis Hamilton discussion thread | Page 71 | FerrariChat

Lewis Hamilton discussion thread

Discussion in 'F1' started by Flavio_C, Aug 16, 2020.

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  1. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Exactly. And ''not a top car'' could well mean 2nd best car, but that's still doesn't explain a whole lot. 2nd best car may sound pretty fast, and on a good weekend should put up a fight for the win, but the truth is pretty far from that for certain seasons.

    For example, the second best car in 2010 would probably be less than a tenth a lap slower than the fastest car, but the 2nd fastest car in the last few years could be up to a second a lap slower (!), so there simply isn't a case for saying ''oh but if such and such had a good weekend they could win'', as if it's just a case for talent doing the work some weekends. With such a large gap, it really isn't as simple as that...one would not only need a great weekend, they need the luck that the fastest car has a race ending issue or significant hold up in say the pit just for them to have a realistic chance at winning.

    That's why I laugh at people who right now make snide comments to say Hulkenberg, who they say is massively overrated because he never had a podium. Yes he's been in F1 for 9 seasons, but the cars he drove and the distance to 3rd was quite a long way off...and all the cars surrounding him where very close in performance. So not only did he need several teams to have a bad weekend, he would also need the luck that either he had the right strategy/car for the weekend, or some other back marker who happened to make a lucky stop (say fresh tyres 15 laps from the end and suddenly a lap later a SC happens...the rest either pits later and loses loads of places or they're on old tyres). F1 isn't black or white. The best driver in the world could well drive at the very back of the grid in a super slow car, never scoring a point, and when a crazy race does happen....something crazy could still happen to him to still not score points! Doesn't mean the driver suddenly sucks, just means that luck wasn't on his side when it happened to all go wrong ahead of him...
     
  2. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    I had a discussion with friends this weekend who have known my passion for this sport for decades. The general consensus is that Hamilton has an exceedingly easy situation. No one is fooled. On the other hand they all regret a battle between drivers because this sport should remains a fight between drivers ( in theory) and not an accounting exercise.
     
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  3. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    No one but the general public so I’d say most are fooled except people that follow the sport;)
    That being said I don’t like lowering Lewis’s achievements.
    No matter how some of u seem to dislike him he is the best of his era. Not raikkonen, not Vettel and as much as I love Fernando and his passion I don’t think he is that much better than Hamilton if at all.
    Hamilton is better over 3 seasons than Button was, better over 3 seasons than rosberg etc.
    He is no Senna, prost or Schumacher to me but if we are honest here the guy is good.
    Verstappen seems to be the only true challenger to Hamilton’s throne but (sorry bas) the guy is still way too immature and hot tempered at this stage for me
    To
    Think In the same car he beats Hamilton over a season.
    I’m no Hamilton fan but I believe that if over the past 7 years everyone has a merc he’s still have won a couple titles.Not 6 though;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    You’re right. Hamilton is a great driver with a record disproportionate to his talent. Do you know a single enthusiast who is happy with the choice of Bottas as a teammate for five long years?
     
  5. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    None but :
    1-how much of that is his fault?
    2-maybe Nico should get more of the blame leaving like a thief Mercedes?
    3-The Germans don’t take risks... why would they? They like law and order and success... so if your drivers finish 1-2 or 1-3 for years and you have no drama AND Lewis (because of his fashion sense lol) brings them Hollywood attention... why would they risk attracting negative press by having 2 alpha males on the team fighting every weekend?
    Why would they want that? They saw what it did to McLaren in 07, McLaren in the 80’s and they also saw what a clear number one brought to Ferrari with Schumacher... can’t blame for playing it safe...
    Not their fault every other manufacturers failed to catch up;)


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  6. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Valid point indeed.
    I was just talking from my perpective ;)
     
  7. I know a few (including myself). The objective of any team is to win championships. Why change the recipe when it is so successful?
     
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  8. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Because this sport is all about drivers.
    Again from a passionate point of view.
     
  9. Oh. I was under the impression there was a constructor's championship and that was where the teams were rewarded. 'Learn something new every day.

    Also from a passionate point of view. ;)
     
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  10. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    Ferrari was the manufacturer’s world champion in 1999 after 16 years of starvation.
    Ferrari regained the driver’s title in 2000 after 21 years of starvation.
    Guess which title was most celebrated in Maranello?
     
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  11. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    In 1991 the Williams FW14 was the best car,
    Only problem was Nigel Mansell ( Canada , Suzuka etc ..)
    In 1991 Ayrton won the title with an inferior car.
     
  12. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    +1

    Toto could have hired Ricciardo, but wanted to keep Hamilton happy and safe despite his rhetoric of "I want close racing".

    Only the few are fooled by Hamilton's rhetoric.
     
  13. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    I honestly don't think Senna had the best car for 89, 90 and 1991. And I'm not that much of a Senna fan...
    Only in 1988; then:
    - The best engine in 1989, but not the best car anymore (the Ferrari chassis was better in 1989)
    - Neither the best engine, nor the best chassis anymore in 1990: the Ferrari was at least on the same level.
    - Neither the best engine, nor the best chassis anymore in 1991: the Williams-Renault was on the same level, then slightly better for the second half of the season. Williams had a bit of a troubled season's start, they threw away some points here and there (think Canada, for instance), but once the planets were aligned, the Williams-Renault was a slightly better car than the McLaren-Honda.

    Rgds
     
  14. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Even better then;) senna is my personal goat


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  15. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Hamilton will have the greatest results of all time.

    But it's a bit "so-what?" given his unique advantages at Mercedes.

    I remember when WDC's were hard fought battles. Great battles !
     
  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I don't think anyone ''blames'' Lewis or Mercedes for that matter for having a slow teammate. They don't need to take the risk of 2 alpha drivers trying to take the title, especially if an ace like Max can sneak in and take the glory for himself, IF RBR builds a fast enough car for once.

    What we do get annoyed with is the typical ''bigging lewis up'' talks from both Merc and Lewis, saying how great a driver Bottas is, or how he really wants a superfast teammate to fight it out with...it's all talk. They keep signing Bottas on a 1 year contract, he continues to be useless, and they sign him again.

    It's that + the hardcore Lewis supporters who feed on such statements and post the articles with great pride, as if they actually believe what is said.


    Ferrari, Red Bull both employ drivers with #1 and 2 status, but at least they're pretty honest about it. Especially with Gasly/Albon, RBR have always maintained that they where not there to beat Verstappen, but to back him up. These teams are the chasing pack and their #1 driver needs to gather every single point he can. Both Gasly and Albon have been fired for their inability of even remotely staying with Max or do the job as back up driver...no use when they're half a minute down the road by the time the first pitstop arrives.
     
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  17. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Can some one please tell me why people think Riccardo would bother Hamilton? Maybe I've missed some highlights of him. Riccardo got beat by Kvyatt in 2015, got beat by Verstappen as well, has not won a race in the Renault, as Hamilton did with the slower 2009 Mclaren. Hamilton already beat a harder challenger Alonso his rookie year. I like Riccardo, I think he is good, maybe I'm missing some stats.
     
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  18. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Ricciardo is a formidable team-mate.

    2015 Ricciardo got beat by Kyvat?? Really??
    It was the car and all those DNF's.

    Ricciardo beat Seb, Ricciardo beat Max or is on par with Max, and he also beat Ocon.

    He RACES his car. He does'nt DRIVE his car.
     
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  19. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    Same here. I like Ricciardo, and he has a brilliant personality, but I don't think he is at the same level as Hamilton.

    I would also rank him behind Verstappen and Leclerc, but above Bottas.
     
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  20. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
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    Don't give Riccardo a DNF pass, Hamilton never gets one. Yeah I like Riccardo, but Hamilton's acheivements are greater, and Hamilton has already had formidable team mates.
     
  21. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You compared Ricciardo to Kyvat in 2015 and I'm telling why in that regards.

    I rate Ricciardo on the same level as Max.

    Ricciardo would be a formidable team-mate against Lewis.
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I rate Ricciardo very highly. Really my favourite character in F1 together with Kimi. But Max has surpassed him when he got his act together in 2018. During quali Monaco when Max dropped the ball and he made that fantastic comeback, it's like the penny dropped for him. He stopped going for the .1% extra all the time and started to think more. When he saw how well that worked Ricciardo was obliterated... Sure, he's made a mistake here and there but so does everyone else do them.
     
  23. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    That's very generous of you, as Bottas is not considered a Top 10 driver by his peers.

    :D
     
  24. I promise, the constructor's, as it means more money for the Company.
    Fantasy and emotion is just talking the talk. It's the revenue for the Company that walks the walk.

    In those previous twenty years of your WDC "starvation", Ferrari was never lower than 4th in the championship.
    I don't think they were "starving" and the bean counters were pleased, I'm sure.
    For example: https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/03/formula-1-teams-prize-money-payments-for-2019-revealed/

    Anywhoooo......all the way back to the question of the need for Merc' to change Bottas out....even using your own rationale ("Because this sport is all about drivers."), why?
    Merc' already has it's winner in Lewis Hamilton. ;)
     
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  25. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

    Feb 27, 2005
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    When was the last time Hamilton suffered a technical DNF ?
     
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