I don't deny it's up to the drivers themselves to be honest, I'am at the end of my tether with the off track antic's now, I had enough of it last year, I believe in karma, I'am not stupid I see things wrong, hate hypocrites, I don't like manlipulation, I hate race results being changed. And nothing has changed, whatta yer do live with it or turn off.
Umm...correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't it Stepney who stole the plans from Ferrari(his employer) to give them to Coughlin...? It would seem that the initial crime was committed by a Ferrari man.
..sorry about that ! I realised that the next thing I would have to do is start submitting all the (well known) details to support my statement....couldn't be bothered arguing with the 'see no evil' horsey brigade!
Apprently you really don't know me. The "see no evil" horsey brigade thought nothing of MS' parking at Rascasse. I did. Yes, what Stepney did was criminal and I still hope he will end up in jail (fingers crossed, the jury is still out on that one). But if McLaren had any ethics, they would have turned down his document instead of asking for additional information and eventually copying Ferraris brake system. I said it before: I'm no Hamilton hater, but you don't lie to the stewards. Whether your name is Hamilton, Schumacher or Raikkoenen. Makes no difference. If you do, you should be thrown out of the competition. As Schumacher should have after Monaco.
Happy to correct the impression I left in my previous post. I understand that you are very strong on the 'ethics' side of things, but I still think a bit of perspective would go a long way. I agree with you that LH handled this situation atrociously, but to want him to 'leave' the sport altogether...?? Surely his talent over the next few years would be missed. I didn't like several unseemly incidents that MS was guilty of, but I don't think F1 or sport in general would have been better off if he had resigned shortly thereafter. Most of the drivers are wealthy, talented...but ultimately they are young and somewhat naive and immature. I remember how I was at 24..... !
Yes, I'm very high on the ethics in this sport. This sport means everything to me and I don't want it ruined by liars and cheaters. We live in a world of liars and cheaters everywhere else. That's why I don't want to see the sacred ground of F1 ruined as well. You can call me naive for that, but that's how I feel. I feel the same way btw about steroids abuse by athletes. Zero tolerance. I don't want Hamilton (nor any other driver) to be banned from the sport, but a 5 race ban would give him enough time to think about it. Age is no excuse if you are making millions. Hence the higher standard. PS: I also hope Hamilton will loose some of his personal sponsors so it hurts him in the check book. I thought Kellogs overreacted to Phelp's misstep. Lying to the officials is a cardinal sin in my book.
I'am finished with this crap, however Is, IMO has summed it up with the above. Max could not organize a pi$$-up in a brewery, this could and should have been nipped in the bud. But no we have resorted to this, in the 1st bloody race of the season....
Lewis has been associated the McLaren organization and racing for quite a few years. It can't be a lack of experience. When he hit F1 he was being touted as a paradigm of a modern driver development system. Looks like another McLaren system that looks better on paper than in fact.
Guys: We have telemetry for a reason. We record the driver and pit conversations for a reason. I have not seen anything other than misstatements--which are unintentional. Lies are intentional. I am well documented to be someone who has never been warm to Lewis, but I think you guys are being pretty hard on him--for something that seems to be a team issue. LH was punished -- too much in my opinion -- let's move on. (The righteous indignation that people would actually tell a falsehood, intentional or not, is getting to me. I believe in honor and character, but I also make allowances for unintended mistakes.) Having said that, did LH actually admit to telling a "lie" or did he admit to misstatements, which could have been simple misunderstandings on HIS part.
Let's get to the real reason you guys all want LH punished. It takes out a great contender for the title and makes Kimi/Massa's chances better. Come on, admit it you guys. I'd rather Kimi and Massa win the title by beating the best.
He was told to make a statement he knew was not correct. No misunderstanding, he knew what he was told was wrong. He has since admitted this, and accepted his punishment. Seems that should put an end to this subject.
I'd rather see Ferrari win the titles by beating ALL of their competition. But no one at Ferrari caused this problem, it was self destruction on the part of Hamilton and McLaren. So I personally would rather this would not have happened. In my opinion, the best this year is not Hamiliton, it will be Jenson and Rubens, and even Jarno.
That, in a nutshell, is my problem with all of this. I'm not defending LH/McLaren for lying...I believe personal integrity is the utmost measure of any man and acting in an unbecoming fashion diminishes that person. I don't like the hypocrisy though...they make situational judgements versus practicing consistent standards in dealing with issues. This creates a subculture of seeing what type of deception a team/driver can get away with. Were the FIA consistent in how they handle situations, it's arguable that McLaren wouldn't have stooped to such behavior. But because teams can bypass the rules and still benefit from their actions, these guys tried to pull a fast one. They were caught, but it's clear the motto of F1 could easily be "F1-if you aren't cheating, you're not trying hard enough". Most importantly, though, is I HATE their screwing with the results after the fact. In the face of Race Control being available to clarify this situation, they should have simply ruled Trulli did pass illegally, but it was caused by McLaren being unclear of the situation. Trulli 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Case closed.
McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh has admitted that his failure to stop the fallout from Lewis Hamilton's Australian Grand Prix disqualification snowballing out of control was a big misjudgement on his part. Speaking on a weekend where his team has become embroiled in its biggest crisis since the spy affair of 2007, Whitmarsh confessed to having deep regrets about the way he has dealt with the situation. In particular, he thinks it was a big error on his part not to cut short a post-Australian GP holiday he had in Indonesia so he could get to Malaysia and deal with the matter before it blew up into a major controversy. "One of the criticisms against me is that I was on holiday, that I didn't arrive here in time," said Whitmarsh. "And I have got deep regrets about that. "But clearly as I left Australia on Sunday evening I wasn't aware of an issue. An issue was started to be reported on Wednesday, which I was told about, but frankly I did not believe the scale of it nor the speed of it. "I didn't know that the Australian stewards would be here and I hadn't imagined and again maybe [it was] a big misjudgement on my part but I hadn't imagined that there was going to be a stewards hearing here. "I knew that there was an issue developing on Wednesday and that I had to speak to the people directly, which I did. Through to Friday morning Dave [Ryan] still held the view that he had not lied to the stewards, and that process I needed to go through. "On Thursday night I left here with the feeling that this was a very severe and significant and embarrassing event for this team. Something which we have apologised for, I have apologised for and I apologise again to the media, to the FIA, to the World Motor Sport Council, to the president for what has happened." Whitmarsh says his decision to suspend the team's sporting director Dave Ryan for his involvement in the matter was the hardest he has had to make in his career. "I took a very tough decision, probably the most difficult professional decision of my life, to shatter a life of a very close colleague and friend and a huge part of this team," he said. Whitmarsh also expressed regret about speaking to the media on Thursday, claiming his team had not lied to stewards, before he was fully aware of what had happened. "I had a human instinct which was wrong probably, to defend colleagues, both Dave and Lewis and in doing that and jumping to that defence, I hadn't done the necessary homework for which I am deeply regretful of. "But having spoken to Lewis, and Lewis told me on Thursday evening that he felt he had lied. Dave still did not, but I reflected on it overnight, and had to come to the view that I had to suspend Dave. I told the FIA what had happened and explained it to them, I explained it on Friday. "Of course I have got a lot of regrets, I wish I had come straight here. I wish I had anticipated it. But in truth even if I was here on Monday, Tuesday and probably Wednesday, it wouldn't have made any difference because it wasn't an event that was unfolding or that we were aware of. And Lewis wasn't here either, he had gone on his own holiday somewhere."
Don't offend me. Seriously. I think I made it crystal clear in my (too) many posts on here that I don't like Massa and thought he was unfairly favored by the FIA last year and that the right man won the title and that the grander justice of F1 has prevailed. So don't give me any of that "the real reason" crap. Lewis is a friggin liar and should have gotten a much harder punishment. Race ban for 5 races. And I would say exactly the same thing about any Ferrari driver or any other driver. The integrity of the sport for me goes way beyond who wins the WDC. YOU DON'T LIE TO THE STEWARDS. EVER! It is as simple as that. Black and white. No grey zones, ifs and buts. PS: In case you haven't noticed: I also thought MS should have gotten a 5 race ban after his Monaco parking maneuvre and consequent lying about it until proven otherwise by telemetry.
V-A-L-I-U-M...! Seriously, I think a 5 race ban would be overdoing it a bit. It is obvious that LH was heavily influenced by his team management. I agree that he needs to take personal responsibility for his boo boo...but to destroy the WC over it would be ridiculous. The mistake was more one of confusion and uncertainty than anything else. They still paid a heavy price for it......let it gooooooo...!
As I understand it, Lewis knew full and well that his statement in front of the stewards of the meeting, didn't represent the truth. So he gave knowingly a false statement, which we, everyday people, call a lie. It doesn't really matter the he did it on instructions of Dave Ryan. The matter still is not settled and I don't think Lewis and the team will walk away with a simple single race disqualification.
Take a look at the 1994 season: The FIA gave MS a race ban because his underbody plank had holes after he slid over the cerrated curbs. THAT was over the top and clearly done with the intent of destroying his championship shot. MS was totally innocent, yet had to sit out a few races. That said, I don't think Lewis stands a chance in hell of defending his title this season. The McLaren is even worse than the Ferrari. And our team has no chance either. +1
No. Not the reason for the penalty. Confusion while on the circuit? Yes. Uncertainty while on the circuit? Yes. But the penalty that Hamilton received, and the one that McLaren will likely receive, has nothing to do with the situation on the circuit. Nothing. Nothing. nothing. You must separate the two events. The penalty has to do with Lewis Hamilton and his Team manager looking straight faced at the stewards and Charlie Whiting, and without hesitation INTENTIONALLY telling the stewards a false and misleading statement. THEY LIED!!! Why? We will never know. Absolutetly stupid on the part of these McLaren personnel. You must read all of the transcripts. Even Hamilton admitted to Whitmarsh this past Thursday night that he lied. Only "Davey", the fall guy, maintained his denial until the end. Hamilton deserved his penalty, I do not agree with a multiple race ban, at this point the DQ from Australia is enough from the FIA. BUT the McLaren team, Whitmarsh, should impose their own penalty on Hamilton for lying and costing the team WCC points. Instead, "Davey", a 35 year employee will be the fall guy. If I owned a team, and my driver lied and cost me points, money, and embarrassment, I would put him on probation and dock him beaucoup $$$. Hamilton is EQUALLY responsible as the team manager, so why he gets off so easy internally is an unknown. Its a COS. The McLaren team deserve to be reemed inside out. Their car which is crap anyway, needs to be inspected more than any other at every race as they appear likely to cheat. Their penalty should be monetary, they aren't going to challenge for the WCC anyway, so banning them from that championship would be futile. I hope this explained the situation a bit better for you. At this point, with all of the facts to date, the admissions, even all of the Hamiltonians here should be able to be honest about the situation. The 2008 WDC lied to race stewards, it is that simple.
