Liability Insurance

Track = everyone signs waiver before entering track = no liability insurance.

 

If you are talking about taking your street car to the track, you need to check your policy. Odds are it denies coverage for "racing events." However, some insurers, such as AIG private client services, will concede that a "driver's education" event is not racing. Best bet is to check with your agent.

The better bet, however, is to assume that you are not covered and drive accordingly.

No scratch that, the best bet is to get a track car such as a spec miata. This is what I did after a Ferrari parts manager pointed out to me at a track day that a new hood for a Maranello is $11,000. You do the math.

If you're talking about racing, I know that the Skip Barber offers insurance with a high deductible for their race series. I don't know about anybody else.

Dale

 

Well this is a significant issue which may be like a lightening strike so maybe it is a non-issue. Auto-policies are usually quiet on this subject unless specifically asked then they say no coverage. There have been several threads in other forum groups where an agent will say they cover you for DE or HPDE mostly because the policy does not exclude it and a race track is pavement and it is HPDE. Then forum members start signing up at a high rate and this alarms the underwriter. They investigate and the party is over...no coverage. So in general I would say your streetcar on track is a loser and in the same situation as a race car on track. It's agreed upon no fault until some di*k wants to call his lawyer. Then all bets are off.

The Porsche GT crash at fontucky raceway found the Ferrari driver $90,000 at fault in a wrongful death despite both signing waivers. I think the wavier was ruled exculpatory (I'm not a lawyer) because neither the track nor the participants had lawyers present to expain what they were signing. So waivers do very little. The total settlement was something like 4 million.

So how do you protect yourself? I don't know. I think there is some protection from a homeowners excess liability umbrella that can cover you and your toys like quadrunners and boats. These are attached to the home owners policy like a jewelry rider and are pretty cheap like in the $100's for 1mil coverage.

Then you can buy a personal liability policy that people say should be the amount of your net worth. It is like $1000 for a 5mil policy.

Then there are legal entities that may help like family limited partnerships wrapped up in revocable family trusts which basically allow you to control your assets from an arms distance and keep $ away from creditors. This animal appears to have real teeth.

I think retirement plans are also judgement free which is what OJ Simpson lives on.

H&K I think advertise in the motorsports mags. They specficially have an insurance line for motorsports. They don't have a reasonable policy for the casual DE, HPDE, or wheel2wheel racers, I checked several years ago like 7. They have big policies = expensive for proracers or guys at low levels you see on TV. I think when I checked on a per event kind of coverage for like 1mil was like $1000-2000/trackday. I can't remember because the number they gave just semed outrageous.

If anyone else has anything to add or a real lawyer can fill in my sketchy details please chime in.

 

Most auto liability and collision insurance policy will cover you at a "track event" or "driving school" as long as it is not an " event of competition of speed or time" ...read your policy first to be sure there is not a specific exclusion for accidents which happen on a race course though... I believe you could beat that in court if necessary as against public policy...However, if it is a "race" or "racing school" such an exclusion may be enforceable. I have represented a couple of people who totaled their cars at BMWCCA driving schools and their collision carrier denied the claim...we won each of those cases on Summary Judgment...

 

Again, I use AIG Private Client services and have been very pleased by the communication and service. When I asked, they said that a DE event would be covered, but a race would not be.

Dale

 

Frank,

Did this fall under the its cheaper to settle route for the companies? What do you think would have happened if there was a death in one of those cars?

 

Ok, here is your solution. Drive 120 MPH on a public road that way when you run over anyone or make some woman a widow your policies have you fully covered.

I have never heard (even when someone dies) of someone suing people involved in an accident that happened on the track. There is an inherent risk of death and injury when you enter that track and i would assume that is why lawyers have not taken these cases on.

Check to see what kid of coverage this guy had:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106104

 

You have been in the dark: http://www.sportscarmarket.com/content/carrera

This issue happened to Fchaters may they RIP. The Ferrari driver was on the hook for $90,000. Yes there is inherent risk but this Porsche GT thing is not really a man bite dog story. It could happen to anyone right here on Fchat and it did...

I "think" if something you do is deemed or charged to you as a crime (aka illegal action driving 122mph and you know you are doing is a crime) vs. an error or ommision your policy may not cover. Liability policies don't cover crimes they cover errors and ommisions.


These are very complicated topics. I hope some pros would come on and talk about ways to mitigate...

 

No settlement...we won on Summary Judgment... if a driving school or private track are not specifically excluded in your policy, you are covered as long as you are not participating in an event of competition of speed or time...i.e., a race .

 

Great for the casual DE of HPDE participant! What can you do to protect yourself if you are time trialing or racing?

 

You buy high-dollar insurance...

Frank's correct on the fact that HPDE's and "track days" that contain no "timed" element or are not a "speed contest" in any way are generally covered, unless there is a specific exclusion on the individual's policy. That's also why there has been movement from the structure of "open track days" to "drivers education." More control, more and clearer expectations of the participants, A safer, more controlled environment.

There has to be proof of "gross negligence" before there is even any discussion of liability on the part of an event organizer. In other words, policies and procedures that are written down or explained to the participants in advance of the event are not followed. That's my understanding of how the CGT incident unfolded.

 

I have heard of this:

Porsche Club of America Driver Education On-Track Insurance Program
http://www.tr-pca.org/news_read.asp?article_id=59

I believe it is good at any track event, but I also believe you have to sign-up for a PCA membership to take advantage. Not sure about liability coverage.

 

Paul, I have no firsthand knowledge, but try http://www.prosure.net/ and also the links on this page: http://www.roadsters.com/insurance/#race

ProSure services DE participants all the way up to top level pro racers. Call Chris Maume at ProSure 678.643.8415, c.maume<@>prosure.net

 

I think what a lot of people on here have been discussing is actually the "collision" portion of their insurance. Damage YOUR CAR on track, and have YOUR insurance cover the bill. That does happen pretty frequently. My take on insurance, even after reading what has been posted, is there is no "liability" insurance. Meaning if you crash into SOMEONE ELSES car, or damage the track, and the other people come after you, your on the line for it.
I go thru Allstate and my agent has told me HPDE is covered as long as it's not timed, but there is NO liability coverage.

Seperate track insurance is completely different, since it is it's own policy

I also think some of it is "don't ask, don't tell". I know of 1 incident here in Portland where a SCCA solo2 event was happening that things went bad. A Porsche was crossong the timing light and the throttle stuck. the guy over ran the runoff area and crashed into 3 parked cars. 1 was a participant, 2 were spectating. 1 sectator car in particular was getting fixed and the owner was a dumb-ass and told the agent/underwriters "wow, i can't believe your covering this, since it happend at the track." Boom! the car wasn't covered for the incident and he was left SOL.
Note, the car wasn't even participating in the Auto-X.

 

Talking about this?:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3197431

 

Yep!

 

How much?

 

He's still on page 1.

 

That sounds fairly reasonable. Now that is just liability correct? And I am assuming that applies to timed and untimed events, correct?