Liability on runs

Well, for Exotics Rally, Inc, we have a liability insurance policy in place and all participants including passengers sign waivers. This of course does not prevent from ever possibly being sued, but it does create a "shield" for the legal bullets to bounce off. Our policy will effectively represent us should a claim be filed as long as we have not violated the terms and conditions. I would tend to think that there is no difference if it's for Charity or not, as long as there is a paper trail on who organized the "event" they can be named in a suit, whether they are liable for how much pressure you placed on your gas pedal is another issue.

I have been dealing with the assessment of risk and liability for many years since I owned a repossession company and every day someone was threatening with legal action. In 12 years I was sued 4 times and won every suit without filing a claim with my insurance and vigorously defending it myself. I have a pretty extensive legal background and the coaching of my uncle who is a supreme court judge here in Nassau County. I have been victorious on all accounts, in fact I was just served another one which I will be in court on 1/18/08 defending tis one..... never ends....

 

NYMC has a very similar legal set up.

 

You can NEVER waive liability no matter what is signed, but you can reduce it by having the proper documentation and not supporting what can be perceived as a hazardous event. If the "club" did a time trial on public streets (which would never occur), then both the driver and club could be held libel for any damage and injuries that occur. The club is an entity and can be held accountable for its actions, and as importantly, lack of action (not stipulating the rules clearly, hazards, laws, etc.). That's why the waiver provides each participant with a clear understanding that they are liable for their action and not the club. As long as the club does not encourage, and a reasonable person can interpret the action to be associated with the individual and not the club, there should be "no" liability. The club has to take due care in how it plans events, what it communicates (in writing and orally) to the members regarding participation.

You can sue anyone for anything, that's our country. A judge has the right to throw the case out if he deems it frivolous, of course. But by then everyone is already out $$. Filing a suit allows you or the plaintiff the ability to have his case heard by judge, and in some cases, a jury to determine if someone has been wronged (civil). Generally, lawyers know if there is a case and will not file unless there is some chance at a claim. If a law has been broken and someone has been hurt (criminal and possibly civil), the probability is high punitive and/or compensatory damages can be sought. Sorry for rambling...

 

It really depends on the situation. If it's a casual gathering of friends and there's a pure accident, it would be difficult to pinpoint liability.

if however there's a gathering and one or more people begin to drive recklessly or appear to be instigators ("hey everyone, follow me....if you can keep up!!!") then you can be damn well sure there's going to be liability there.

I don't think the small groups of people out for a sunday drive need to worry....and it sounds like the more formal organizations / clubs, etc. are covering their bases quite well.

nlh

 

there is no foolproof coverage for any type of driving or motorcycle club, but people seem to understand that they are responsible for their own behavior while on the road, and that's how we operate. we keep the insurance policy just in case, but we also screen applicants based on driver's license status and age.

 

You could have stopped that last sentence there!

 

In NY and many other states, anticipatory waivers are not enforceable. So those long waiver forms you sign before an event are essentially meaningless. They won't protect the sponsor, nor will the protect any of the participants from potential claims.

For virtually all of the "street" events, like foliage runs, fun runs through the countryside, etc., or club events, car shows, etc., your normal auto insurance will cover you for any accidents that might occur. Sponsors usually have event coverage, but that only protects them if they are sued. Your auto insurance will cover you if you are sued. As long as it is not a race for prizes or a "timed" event, and does not occur on the property of a race track, your regular auto coverage should cover you, including any umbrella coverage you may have.

Where you potentially run into problems is at track days or HPDE events at race tracks, like Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, Pocono, etc. Most auto policies expressly exclude events at race tracks, whether they are timed events or "driver's schools." I've been looking into this issue and may have located a track liability policy to cover potential claims at track events. After that Porsche incident and resulting lawsuit in CA last year, I'm concerned about potential lawsuits should something happen at an HPDE. Since I do a number of them every year, it is a real concern.

Oh, and something for those of you who like to drive 100+ mph on public streets to think about. You risk not being covered should you have an accident. If you are racing another car on the street, or travelling at hugely excessive speeds and have an accident, expect your insurance carrier to claim that you were engaging in willful conduct and therefore excluded from coverage under several of the standard policy exclusions. So don't be surprised if you carrier denies coverage or issues a reservation of rights letter potentially leaving you without coverage.

 

Woah, yeah i forgot about that...thats scary. What if you are just driving 100 and blow out a tire and wipe out on the guard rail or something...you are saying the insurance wouldn't cover it? Well what good is paying $4k a year for insurance then....I have the max coverage for everything including $1.5 million liability, and $200k property damage. I have an umbrella too. So all these people that crash at high speeds and total several cars, you are saying they don't get coverage? They wouldn't be able to tell anything from the black box either, because I ripped that apart.

 

Sure they do. It's called insurance fraud!

 

Thanks for all the information guys,. It is proving to be very helpful for the future.

 

There are several components to this issue: 1. liability to each other, and 2. liability to a third party. As to 1. above, the doctrine of assumption of risk would probably come into play. Depending upon the jurisdiction, it might or might not afford a defense. Getting a release, unless it was very carefully drafted, probably would be subject to various tactics. The issue would be up to the court on the particular point. As to 2. above, consider all of the participants screwed. If someone were exceeding the speed limit, and someone got hurt, all of the participants could be held liable, and frankly, if a release was involved, the third party could use that to prove that you folks intended to violate the law, and therefore there was a conspiracy, and all should be liable.

Art

 

This is why my new year's resolution is to take it to the track. I'm done with driving stupid money cars on the street. While I'm not ready to sell the Maranello just yet, its days are numbered.

Dale

 

More people should adopt that theory.

 

Get a bike. Much faster than anything we mortals can afford in a car, and a whole bunch more fun. Does seperate the men from the boys though. I've got a couple of vintage Ducks for sale. One or two of them, won a National or two.

Art

 

NFW!

To paraphrase from Animal Farm -- Four Wheels Good!

Dale

 

Amen!