lift throttle oversteer

Depends on the car, how fast you're going, your steering angle, and how sudden you go from throttle to no throttle. There's no one specific way the car will react.

If you want to do this for fun, though, I certainly recommend doing it on a track on a corner that doesn't have armco near by. Drifting can be fun, but until you get the hang of it, it might well end up turning you around or worse.

 

What car are you refering to?

General information...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer

The 360 was more prone to lift off oversteer than the cars that came after it like the CS. In the CS they stiffened up the rear anti roll bar to prevent weight shift and adjusted geometry settings to make it easier to catch and have less tendancy to happen. TC tries to help you out somewhat but you can still outwit it with the earlier version of the stability programme.

On the F430 most of this was dialed out with smarter TC. On both the 360 and the F430 the throttle is actually digital so if you lift off mid corner the car has enough intelligence to check its lateral g / acceleration sensors, its wheel slip sensors, steering yaw angle, throttle position sensors and others to see if it needs to 'help' you out. I.e. drive the car for you to stop you sliding off backwards first. Ofcourse turn off the TC and thats another matter...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGwCWqC1XwY

does this look predictable to you?



my first experience with it in my 360.. i've gotten much better since

 

Nice to see you driving on track. I'm assuming you had the TC off?

 

Get yourself on the track, learn the finer points of car control where your can slide without fear or danger. Once you learn the control you'll find yourself enjoying the car much more, you'll know when your pushing it and it will make you a better driver (on both road and track).

 

That video was just punishment for poor technique. It looked like he carried too much speed into the corner, and instead of keeping his foot in it, he lifted and then braked.... transferring weight forward.... inducing the spin via 'trailing throttle oversteer'.

 

Ferrari's have traditionally rewarded good driving technique, and chews up punters. Enroll in a good driver's school like Bondurant or Barber, and practice, practice, practice. 360s are a cake walk compared to earlier Ferrari's.

 

+1. Also, Ferraris are not as subject to the rear end breaking lose as their reputation might suggest. I've tracked a bunch of them ranging from 308 to 430 and never had one bite me. But I don't use the throttle as an on/off switch. This is what leads to trouble. I've found on track days it is pretty easy to steer with the throttle as long as you are smooth. You can use "lift throttle oversteer" to help rotate through tight corners. You have to make a big mistake to spin a Ferrari. I think the most common cause is when an inexperienced driver feels it start to oversteer and then lets off the throttle instantly. There are other ways to do it also but all require a pretty big driver error.

Dave

 

Correct. (not that my skills are superior)

 

yes guys it was just that I do not know what I was thinking I only did this once before on the track in a car..

I was driving all morning in the m3.. and I wasn't thinking.. I just reacted all wrong.. hence what happened..

I haven't spun the 360 since that one time.. just happened to be caught on tape..

the gransport and lotus are very good track cars too but the 360 makes me the most nervous.. it feels the most twitchy.. more than the lotus

 

I accelerated to about 105-110 then coasted to 80 or so by the time I hit the turn.. to be honest the car could have made it had I had more confidence without problem.. I let off gas completed right past apex then tapped brakes and that is when I lost it..

what I think everyone needs is a nice track like this with plenty of run off, or a skid pad to get an idea of the limits of the car then you can make HISTORY on the track

 

Most spins I've observed happen before the apex. Typically the driver enters too fast and tries to force the car toward the apex making things worse. Better to just let the car go wide (and stay off the brakes) until control is regained. Another method if you know you are going to fast to turn in is just stay on the brakes and go deeper into the turn before trying to turn in. You lose lots of time but the car stays on the asphalt nose forward. Spinning after the apex can be caused by power on oversteer where too much throttle breaks the rear loose, or lifting as Pano did. Applying brakes even a little when the car is near the limit is almost guaranteed to cause a spin. Sometimes, if you apex too early or give too much gas, you can find yourself running out of track at the exit but this can normally be handled by backing out of the throttle a little. This loses time of course and when I do it I know I botched the turn.

Dave

 

Simple rules will help beginners:

1. Maximum brake pressure from braking point to turn in
2. Release brake as you turn in. Imagine string from steering wheel to brake. Release brake more as you apply more lock
3. At apex (defined as when you stop applying lock and begin to unwind the steering wheel), gently start to apply throttle and increase throttle as you unwind the wheel
4. Full throttle at exit

KEY POINT: Gentle release of brake from turn-in to apex and gentle application of throttle from apex to exit. NO THROTTLE BEFORE APEX

If car too slow at turn-in, brake later!

 

Don't you want power at least a little right after you stop braking? and during the turn in? your foot is on the gas right after brake no?

 

Yes, it is a very rare situation where you would just let a car roll on a road circuit.

Dave

 

You should go to a proper drivers school if you want to learn how to properly drive this (or any) car at the limit.. Trying to get answers over the internet and then trying to interpret that advice into real world driving at the limit is not a good idea.. If you can't get away for a proper school, signup for a DE event at your local track and spend some time in the car with an instructor that can give you the "real time" advice you need. I promise you, it's worth it and will be very eye opening for you..

 

When the spin happens depends on the driver's level of incompetence.

What everyone really needs is not necessarily a track, but instruction. You can have all the track time you want, but unless you learn proper technique and then practice it, you playing trial and error with your life and your car.

Generally, the idea is to roll on the throttle as soon as possible. I tend to be accelerating towards the apex and feeding in more power as I exit.

 

I have only spun 2x on the track.. in the video you see there and in a lotus esprit v8 that was modified with 400 RWHP and was a bit more tempremental

 

If you can use gas before the apex you braked too early. You should trail brake all the way to the apex. If you use accelerator when still turning wheel you are following the procedure to do a donut if you are on the limit. Car will be very stable with late braking as weight on front wheels. Releasing the brake gently allows the car to turn

 

This is the best advise I have heard in awhile.

 

my methods (Assuming I am in the right line, and angle of apex) is to accelerate then brake hard right to the apex, then accelerate while turning through the apex! I notice that is what the other drivers do as well

 

It is difficult to analyze technique in words, rather than seeing and feeling actions. However, if you are hard braking while turning, you should be looking at the cars coming at you, as you swap ends. As you turn towards the apex, you should be using a technique called trail braking, followed by rolling onto the gas. It should be a smooth transition, rather than abrupt changes and weight transfer.

A student I had in the car while I was trying to explain this summed it up best, "I could feel hard braking, and hard acceleration, but the transition between the two was so smooth that I couldn't tell when one finished and the other started". Being smooth allows you to work with the car, rather than fight with it. Remember, physics actually plays a pretty big role in the way a car behaves in your hands.

Ferrari's reward smooth technique, and punish ham fisted drivers...... as they should!