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Limited Editions: 812 GTO & F8 "Speciale/Pista/limited edition"

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by LMH, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    140
    Spain
    Hi,

    I would like to ask for advise to the most experienced members.

    Recently I’ve been able to start acquiring my dream and passion: cars. So from riding a bicycle in London a few years ago and no cars, to today’s GT3 RS, 720S (to be exchanged for 765LT), and Speciale. Worth mention I don’t have debt and I do not intent to sell them.

    My goal is to put together a little collection of the latest and greatest combustion engine cars, as I believe EVs are coming fast, and in Europe combustion engines have their days counted.

    My target is to get an allocation for the 812 “GTO” special series, and because I have no history with Ferrari, I was told I need to build it up to get an allocation. So I bought a used Speciale, a 812 and F8. Then, as I had 3 Ferraris, I was offered a GTS and added it to the list. So that in time, when Ferrari made the “picture” of how good a client you are to decide who gets an 812 GTO allocation, in theory I should get it. Same for F8 “pista”.

    The plan was to enjoy the 812, then lose like 100k, enjoy the F8, lose like 100k, and so get allocations for those special editions.

    But with the economical recession happening right now, not sure if I will still be able to get out of the non special editions as per my plan.

    My logic, using the TDF as an example is that either you can pay like 200k premium on a second hand one, or build up your history with the brand “loosing” the same aprox 200k on several cars but with the benefit of:
    1) spec the car how you like, and
    2) enjoy the normal versions for a while

    What’s your view?


    Thanks
     
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  3. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2011
    2,212
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tim&Julie
    buy used *for sure*.
     
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  4. nads

    nads Formula Junior
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    Jun 4, 2008
    855
    London, UK
    #3 nads, Apr 8, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
    ^ This. Massive premiums are a thing of the past for most cars, and trust me losing 100k each time on a car gets old very quickly.

    Although the world going forward may be different, the chances of securing the Limited Edition cars will continue to be challenging for someone relatively new to the brand. Access to the Limited Production cars however should be attainable.
     
  5. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3
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    Oct 1, 2004
    1,261
    Austin TX
    In the USA, you also must have a recent 4 seater to be allowed an allocation even if you have a serious fleet of Ferrari's:

    California, FF, Lusso, Portofino, but, I do not believe the Roma qualifies since it is a "2+" and not a "2+2" like the Portofino.

    Used is ok, but, such a "GT Car" would have to be in your "garage" (not simply in your ownership history).
     
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  6. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,501
    France
    All the requirements for having owned cars or buying some more may not be sustainable by Ferrari - it was already questionable before the Covid mess (some were told they needed to lose huge money on other cars to be "awarded" the right to spend money on a Pista, but now anybody can buy a used Pista for MSRP... and it's getting worse, or better, depending on the point of view).
    The F12 TdF is the only recent Ferrari that still sells for more than MSRP, but it was initially priced with some restraint (which is not the current Ferrari policy, from the start they try to put the price as high as possible, which limits the excess demand) and it was a truly limited car.
     
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  8. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,361
    buy a lusso and roma and do tailor made for both. bring vaseline.
     
  9. Autolove

    Autolove Karting

    Jun 8, 2012
    212
    S.A. TX.
    Full Name:
    Ivan
    A lot of it is two cars
     
  10. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
    15,361
    yep - and agree to finance them when they tell you theyd like you to. just make sure they put your name on the note, and not the dealers.
    fun game.
     
  11. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
    15,361
    has a 812 tdf been confirmed? i thought the answer was not happening.
     
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  13. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3
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    Scraggy
    Those were the days
     
  14. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3
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    All numbered cars 599 GTO, 458SA are still trading over albeit much softer
     
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  15. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    140
    Spain
    As far as I know there is no oficial confirmation, but everyone I speak with believes is happening.
     
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  16. nads

    nads Formula Junior
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    Jun 4, 2008
    855
    London, UK
    812 VS happening. Mules have been spotted testing, unless Covid has changed the scenario completely leading the project to be scrapped.
    F8 VS not happening.
     
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  17. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
    1,066
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    George
    No one knows what the requirements will be in the post-COVID era. The 599 GTO was launched in the midst of the great financial crisis and it was pretty easy to get an allocation. Many Ferrari buyers with short history got one. The TDF was the other extreme; in my country Ferrari wanted to see 5 Ferraris currently owned from new on the CRM system, including a limited series car.

    Based on what I have seen in the last 5 years, Ferrari don’t really care how many cars you buy used. They make no money from them. They might care if you bought a used hypercar (288, F40, F50, Enzo, LaF) or a top classic like a 250SWB. But they wont care if you bought a used 812.

    They will look at the number of cars you bought new and the number of those you still own. The less hot models (Portofino, Lusso etc) get more attention, so owning one from new is good.

    In summary, unless COVID changes people’s buying patterns and reduces demand dramatically (it very well might), you are better off paying the premium and buying the car you want in the second hand market. There is no time to build the level of history Ferrari would require to allocate you a build slot for the 812VS (especially if it is limited number production), unless of course you plan to order every car on the catalogue now!




    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  18. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,501
    France
    If demand drops there may also be no real need for whatever history to buy the 812 VS.
    The 812 VS will most probably be introduced at a list price higher than the market price of an F12 TdF - one may argue that the difference is that most people wanting (and able to afford) an F12 TdF already have one, while by definition nobody will already have the new 812 VS. But still, this leaves a question mark on the actual demand for the 812 VS.
     
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  19. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    140
    Spain
    I don´t expect that to be the case on pricing, doble than the 812 is too much.
     
  20. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    140
    Spain
    As an example, there is a UK YouTube Chanel I like called

    https://www.thecarguys.tv

    He owns 7 Ferraris among other things, and is quite honest and open about car related issues. He admits in one of his episodes he paid 400.000 GBP over price for his F12 TDF.

    For 400.000 GBP you could play the Ferrari Game and pay a lot of depreciation on other cars so that you will get an allocation for the special series, don't you think?

    I think both strategies (used versus playing the game and buy cars you don´t want) are valid ones, my point is that economically they are also very similar.
     
  21. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    unless you get a laf equivalent, playing the game never results in big bains....
     
  22. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
    15,361
    which episode contains this? i like their videos alot too.
     
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  23. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    140
    Spain


    Min 2:44
     
  24. LMH

    LMH Karting

    May 5, 2019
    140
    Spain
  25. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
    9,694
    You've been given good advice. In general there are no hard and fast rules here, its more like suggestions and then there are no guarantees. Your best odds are to buy some new cars and let them know you'd like to get the 812 VS. Also attend events when invited.

    As to pricing, if they do make an 812 VS, then I think its worth considering when we hear of F12tdf trading at one value or another, it is one car, at one time. At any one time how many out of the 799 F12tdf are on the market? I think its a different calculus when you are going to come to the market with another xxx number of cars all within a short period. I don't think you can sustain that kind of pricing.

    And then you have recent events. Its going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.

    Its great to play the game, but only buy the cars because you enjoy them. That's the winning formula.
     
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  26. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    29,204
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    If you are in it for the long haul with Ferrari and want these cars, then start building that relationship as you have. The advantage is that you will be considered for the other LE cars as well and not just the 812.

    If you buy used, you might save some money but wont ever be considered. And as you said you get to spec the car as you want which is a bonus considered how most of the specs nowadays are very personal (Not like 20 years ago where it was Red on Black and Red on Tan...).

    OTHO, if i had your liquidity, i would rather get stuff made years ago like a Daytona, F40 and a Stradale..
     
  27. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3
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    Oct 15, 2011
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    Sure there is Ferrari new car volume (those are given) but IMHO but there is also history, and most of all (like many things) there is relationship. Your relationship with your dealer must be strong - manager(s_ and even ownership team/person. This goes a long way to understanding if you will be considered for the limited cars. You will need to spend time getting to know the entire team, it all goes to your clout of getting a car. To me the Pista was not restricted enough to be called anything super limited; but when you talk about Pista Spider, Icona, 812SS, SuperCars (Laf) now we are talking limited and it is a very different approach. If the dealer has only 7 or 8 Pista Spiders to allocate you should know if you sit high/low or where on the pecking list you are. I was maybe 1 allocation away from a Pista Spider (and I asked...begged) but you see who is getting them and you learn/understand. Its investment of time and money, you need to be at the events, you need to attend track dates, you need to do all the little things so they know you and can vouch for you. They want to know, if you get a car will flip it right away? Who sells your cars? Do you have the funds to even do this? Are you all over the map or do you really love Ferrari. Once you do all that you should have a pretty good idea whether you will qualify and you can start to have the upfront conversations about where you stand and if you are top tier.. they will be "kind of" open and guide you. If things change post COVID fine, but I highly doubt a ton will change and reality is a lot of those upper clients are really NOT hurting right now. My only take on it is you gotta give us young upcoming guys a chance too, if you keep awarding all the amazing stuff to the historical crew then why should we blowing our brains out.

    All in all if the above just makes you sick to your stomach (like a true normal person) then just pay the aftermarket premium and be done with it (I did that for a Porsche Speedster, I have limited history/clout with them). For me, I am still learning whether I like the hunt of the secondary market (more) or the speccing/buying and waiting to get to the top etc. Enjoy the journey my friend.
     
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  28. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,361
    Finding stuff in the secondary is way more exciting than speccing a car. After you have specced a cple cars the novelty goes away fast. And i hate tailor made so that was never something id do.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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