Link block between heater valve motor and valve | FerrariChat

Link block between heater valve motor and valve

Discussion in '348/355' started by Timmo, Oct 13, 2024.

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  1. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    680
    Continental Europe
    Hello,

    The PO of my '96 F355 thought that the heater valve motor died and modified the assembly so that the valve could be operated manually.
    However after having the HVAC CU checked recently it turns out that the culprit for the lack of response from adjusting the temperature knob was the fried corresponding driver, as confirmed after having the driver replaced by checking visually that the heater valve motor now responded either way to temperature adjustments.
    In order to get the heater valve assembly back together I need to reconnect the output shaft of the motor to the tab on the valve, and upon checking pictures online of how the assembly normally looks like I notice a metallic block that I do not have.

    Does anyone on here have a spare heater valve assembly they could take apart and post measurements of this part so that I could remake one? If anyone with a failed heater valve in their pile of parts has this little part readily available I would be happy to purchase it.

    Thanks in advance for your help.

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  2. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    463
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    I can do this for you tomorrow.
     
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  3. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    463
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    12mm square at the ends by 27mm long

    Motor spindle hole centre 5.5mm from one end, diameter 5mm

    Screw hole centre 5.5mm from same end, tapped to accept M5 grub screw which protrudes 10mm

    Note you can also replace this valve with a generic Chinese part resold by Vintage Air and which, along with some connectors, wires and a bracket, is what you'll get if you spend $600 on the supercession part 63306400/A from Ferrari: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/149791856/ post 294
     
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  4. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    680
    Continental Europe
    #4 Timmo, Oct 14, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2024
  5. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    463
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    I did install one and it worked fine, but before I got around to folding up a bracket and tidying up the wiring, I saw this utter bargain on eBay, which I installed instead:
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    I will keep the generic valve as a spare - I'm also waiting for a custom-order replacement DC motor for my original valve to arrive from China, which I hope to be able to repair and will then be able to offer a rebuild service for the original parts.
     
  6. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    680
    Continental Europe
    £78? You lucky sod...

    I will consider my options, thanks again for your input.

    On a more general note I am curious if the heater valve motor does not suffer from the same design flaw as the one for the recirculation flap and ends up breaking (or its driver) as it is continually fed with power.
     
  7. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,225
    Serbia - Niš
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    No, the valve motor running is controlled by the AC ECU - the motor is run and stopped (the power to it is cut-off) from time to time based on the cabin temperature request and the feedback from the motor's potentiometer.

    As we have recently established, the recirculation flap motor (no potentiometer) is also not continuously powered. The power to it is also cut-off some seconds after it (the flap) hits the stops. However, this does not really protect its gears against breaking as the motor is stopped only after the gears are exposed to impact caused by the sudden stall of the motor at the stops.
     
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  8. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    463
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    I suspect the failure mode is that the DC motor fault (in my case, seems like a short in the winding) causes the driver to continue to supply voltage as it sees no change in the output from the potentiometer, which then causes the driver to fail. Those DC motors are a £3 part, but unfortunately they are not available off the shelf with the same connectors anymore.

    btw it was £62.40 with a voucher code :) - the breaker obviously didn't really know what they were selling. I contacted them directly to buy some more parts that weren't listed on eBay, but unsurprisingly they didn't have much left.
     
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  9. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    680
    Continental Europe
    Interesting, thank you both.

    Is there a way to test the potentiometer? If the motor seems to rotate accordingly to temperature adjustments I understand that it could still fry the driver again if the potentiometer is faulty?
     
  10. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    463
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    Steve C
    With the part on the car, use a multimeter with back testing probes to test that the voltage between the blue wire and ground varies as the motor turns.
     
  11. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    The motors and the valves are still available as separate units. The Ferrari's motor/valve assembly was custom made by someone using a Bosch motor used in some Alfas and a Volkswagen valve.

    Alfa/Ferrari motor - Bosch 0 390 721 006 (the shaft needs to be shortened):
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    Looks like can be used (Renault 7701030385), Bosch 0 390 721 003 (the brass gear needs to be removed):
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    You can google for both above motors. One new Bosch 0 390 721 003 is currently also sold on Ebay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/204172322608?_skw=Bosch+0+390+721+003&itmmeta=01JA73TTF9G7GVT4DY63YM6YG3&hash=item2f899e6730:g:ETMAAOSwuoRmjis6&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlY%2BgTnmAc6sA18oYMhlgqSgCHyklixWChEsABgHzjGj8SRyVTLK8kGH3M82pTxFCftN6NsRS5CWoXFsWEqN3EJYi8qeUZ8l%2B87BbpvUyaqpkS6eTWV3IssQs4L1mpCkRS8DaCWqazdmJf%2BMrpaq5s7BAVzhc6jxsLWXmh42lg5Xj9L1MdF1plk3bCcHEP6n%2FFIKAjE4nCgP3nBlDohB%2FTTybDpOqBASCAFtQLMlpnxWbSmIOjapI9AXR2J9Tdpgco%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9yn6-PRZA)

    The valve is Volkswagen p/n 171819809E, easily available and cheap. Needs part of its body to be cut-off (as what Ferrari did) and its arm needs to be cut shorter and bent at 90 deg.
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  12. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    You ca also test the potentiometer on the bench by running the motor (make sure you disconnect it before it hits its stops) and monitoring the resistance change between the pot's middle and one of the pins next to it. The resistance change should be smooth and without breaks (an analogue ohmmeter is better for this test). The second picture below shows what resistance I measured with the valve fully closed (the coupling block very close to the stop on the motor).

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  13. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    680
    Continental Europe
    Excellent stuff, many thanks.
     
  14. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    A company called "Vintage Air" (San Antonio, TX: https://vintageair.com/gen-ii-servo-heater-control-valve-replacement-kit/) make heater valve replacement kits which are also sold by Summit Racing (https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/heater-valves?page=1). One of the Vintage Air models shown on the Summit website (p/n 461170, $59) is described as being a 5-wire type which may mean that it has a built-in potentiometer:
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    If this 5-wire model has a pot inside (Vintage Air should be able to confirm), then this model could probably work in the 348 and 355 with a suitable conversion to the wiring and a custom made bracket.
     
  15. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    680
    Continental Europe
    Well, it seems that @redwedge is using this, so it seems to work? I think I will use one of these and perhaps put the original valve assembly together and sell it for a fortune on fleabay.
     
  16. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Steve C
    #16 redwedge, Oct 16, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2024
    Yes, any of these can be used as a source for the likely failure point, the internal DC motor. It will be easier to simply swap that part over than to modify the Alfa/Renault part to work in the 355.

    I am trying to find a reliable source for brand new DC motors with the correct pinion and connector block, however it is proving difficult.
     

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