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Lobo bolts

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by christc, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    344
    Germany
    Dear All,

    I know that Lobo bolts were used on many Ferraris and Alfas in the 50s/ 60s / 70s.

    Which Ferrari models used Lobo?

    I know of the 250, 330, 275, Dino models. Which else?

    Do you know what sizes of Lobo bolts were used and on what Models?

    I know Newco sells them but are there other sources too?

    Thanks
    Christopher
     
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  3. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    what is so special at lobo bolts?
    as I see it they look like normal bolts only with the lobo sign on the head
     
  4. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Jun 19, 2012
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    Christc: All models including race cars used Lobo hardware from the mid-1950s up to the Dino/Daytona/C4 era, where some Fiat sourced hardware begins to appear. Sizes vary from 4mm to 12 and a few 14mm. Generally speaking most hardware in this era was Lobo except for "special" bolts made by Ferrari for certain applications.
     
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  5. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    I believe they were just another "industrial" manufacturer of bolts and other hardware at the time, nothing extremely special per se.

    I also believe the main reason they've become sought after is due to some "Concours" entity decided to look for them, along with hose clamps and other easy/simple-to-see details during judging.

    Other similar items for "concours conscious" restorations are those "Yellow" insert nylon nuts. The available reproductions, while having correct appearing "yellow" inserts, seem otherwise to be made of inferior quality (i.e. hardness) and other incorrect details.
     
  6. MiuraP400

    MiuraP400 Formula Junior

    Feb 3, 2008
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    I rebuilt the transmission on a 2001 Isuzu Rodeo that had Lobo bolts inside it. So I agree they are a regular hardware supplier. The transmission was a GM automatic built in France.

    Cheers Jim
     
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  8. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    The tingling you get when you work on them.

    How about this one, what is it?

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  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    this tingling I only have when there is voltage on ;)
     
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  10. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    I will say, the Lobo hardware of that period was good quality. That is another reason we save and reuse the original Lobo bolts and nuts.
     
  11. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    The problem you may face today is finding the new bolts in larger than M8 sizes, but with 1.0 threads.

    john
     
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  13. mechaniker

    mechaniker Formula Junior
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    May 30, 2004
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    I found LOBO-Bolts up to the Enzo. Haven´t worked on much younger stuff so far.
     
  14. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior
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    Jan 18, 2004
    391
    I agree John, one of the problems sourcing replacement hardware for a Ferrari restoration is the change in fastener dimensional standards over time, and size availability. Ferrari typically used fine-threaded fasteners and some sizes are simply hard to find today, the range offered reduced. Indeed, some partial-thread mid-lengths in M10 and M12 are not easily found at your local supplier - 75 mm and 85 mm lengths are no longer common, as compared to 70, 80, 90. At least you can shorten a 90 to get an 85. The standard wrench head size for an M8 fastener was once 14 mm; today the standard is 13 mm. Fortunately there are reproductions now at least of the M8 x 1.0 fine thread nuts with 14 mm dimension across the flats, used throughout on old Ferraris. However, one should ask that they are heat treated and strengthened to the correct grade, and not just cut out of ordinary hex stock. Making M8 bolts to a tested standard is a more involved and costly proposition, so you usually have to accept a replacement that has the lesser 13 mm across the flats (wrench size). So maybe save that old LOBO fastener if in good condition - I concur with Dyke, they were of excellent quality. Even larger castle nuts are dimensionally shorter than they once were. As for the larger nylock nuts, the original ones found on 60s Ferraris were nicely made, taller, crisp corners, etc. The current ones you find seem crude in comparison. Internet search shows the LOBO SpA brand still exists under the umbrella of ‘Fontana Gruppo’, but there seems to be little distribution in the US; hardware suppliers give you what they have, much of it coming from Southeast Asia. I ask for Italian or German manufacture for quality, real or imagined, and pay attention as manufactured to the DIN and ISO standards. For concours, seeing ‘LOBO’ on the bolt head is a nice touch on a 50s/60s Ferrari; perhaps a symptom of restoration madness too….

    (A great resource for older hardware dimensions is an old Swiss ‘Bossard’ technical fastener book. Many years ago a hardware salesman gave me one. I had it with me once visiting my local metric supplier and his eyes lit up “Where did you get THAT?”)
     
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  15. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    When i got my Ellena car, all the parts and bolts were taken apart and in 6 crates. As i sorted all the crates and 20 some coffee cans where the nuts and bolts were, i noticed that none of the bolts on the car had any head markings on them what-so-ever.

    Discussion with other owners and orig cars confirmed this - no head markings on the bolts.

    Im not familiar with earlier Ferrari's than the Ellena/Boano version of 56-58, so maybe LOBO came after the end of the Ellena's 1958.

    What about 59 PF coupes, the next production of cars?
     
  16. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
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    For me it was key to reuse as many parts including bolts were possible while restoring my car. Its the little details that can make the difference. This is not about showing it, I dont care about concourse. It is for the pleasure it gives myself to see the little details to be right on a car. The best is to have something untouched, second best is to have something restored with the heart, keeping what can be kept and doing it with respect to originality and authenticity. This is my way of thinking and I do respect if others think completely different. If I can reuse an original bolt I will go a long way to do so, e.g. having it cad plated instead of using something new, second best would be a replacement Lobo bolt. Only if there is no other alternative I will use something else. This may seem dumb to some people but makes perfectly sense to me as I do it for me and not others.
     
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  17. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    344
    Germany
    Dear Ed,

    I do not know about PF coupes but on my Gte most bolts were Lobo, except for very few plain bolts, e.g. holding back axle to leave springs.

    Greetings
    Christopher
     
  18. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    It seems like Ferrari, in general, used the finer threads in those days, compared to what is the standard today. You can get the Lobo heads easy enough until about M8, then it gets hard to source.

    Some of the other Ferrari fasteners that are not easy to find are M8x1.0x14 and M8x1.0x12 nuts.

    john
     
  19. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    Kare, if this bolt came from your car, it could be from a part that was sourced from a supplier.... for instance, the overdrive, the ZF box, etc.

    john
     
  20. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior
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    Ed, Early Pf Coupes have LOBO fasteners.
     
  21. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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  22. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior
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    Christopher, I follow your approach, use/restore as much of the serviceable original hardware as possible. John keeps the black oxide processors busy!
     
  23. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    meanwhile 12 mm at some car manufacturers, japanese motorcycles since long time


    also fiat and alfa romeo used the finer threads. so you still can find at fiat dealers ( only the old dealers ) a lot of fine threaded bolts and screws.


    overdrive is british when I remember right and at that time the british still not used metric sizes. or are there also non metric lobo nuts/screws on the market? would be new for me
     
  24. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    My car was disassembled with bolts "thrown into a bucket", so about everything is there, but you must go and find it. So I thought somebody might know where this screw belongs. Quite an achievement to put a part number (?) on a small screw, so it must have a special purpose. Not necessarily a Ferrari part though, but precious piece in my museum collection of strange fasteners...
     
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  25. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    John, just love your parts layouts......yes my car as well used castle nuts, but NO lobo bolts. The good news for my car, i can get replacement bolts as/when needed, clean the head markings off , reblack oxide them and BAM, good to go!!

    Besides the no head markings on the bolts, all the screws in the car are slotted, no philips screws on the ellena.
     
  26. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    While not all are Ferrari related or even metric, these are examples of some specialty or OEM hardware, including couple of different grade “LOBO” bolts, I’ve collected over the decades.

    “DPCD” (=Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler, DeSoto) bolts were manufactured by Chrysler Corp. in large variety of sizes (like “LOBO”) and used extensively throughout their post-war vehicle productions until early ‘60s.
    I probably have enough to restore several cars with all correct OEM bolts, nuts and other small hardware.
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  27. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    And again, while not directly "LOBO" related (as per thread title), let's not forget U.S. market 365 GTB/4s , a.k.a. "Daytonas" have some custom-made bolts and other hardware featuring/mixing both Metric & SAE specs in the same item, which I assume were made in-house at the factory.
     
  28. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    Kare, what size is that bolt and how many do you have? I have kept a photographic record of my restoration project and I might spot that bolt.

    john
     
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