Local Ferrari dealer?

I have had my car serviced at FoD and they have been nothing but spectatular.. Talk with John Yueh, he is the service manager, and let him know I sent you in... They have done nothing but excellent work for me and I am definately going back.

 

Just had my Elise serviced by them. I won't go anywhere else.

 

GO TO SCUDERIA RAMPANTE in Boulder he is by far the best Ferrari mechanic in Colorado. Dave Helms is the owner, he will treat you like family. I don't take any of my cars anywhere esle. I don't have his number handy but I am sure some of out fellow fchatters has it.

 

Website: http://www.****************.com/

As well as: http://www.ferrariofdenver.com/

James in Denver

 

I take our '99 GTS to Dave Helms. He is extremely knowledgeable and easy to work with. We are lucky to have such great service right here on the Front Range.

 

Though I have association since I worked there, in my experience Ferrari of Denver is a top-notch facility with some very qualified, top-notch mechanics. I'm sure Bill Evenden could go toe-to-toe with Dave Helms; his stellar resume is posted on FoD's website. Also realize that Ferrari of Denver is a busy place with lots of customers and doesn't need to drum up fake charges to make money, unlike my Audi dealer.

 

This is a false rumor, I spoke with him today, he definitely still doing work on 355s. He used Hill Bearings on my car, I could not be happier with the results of my 30,000 mile major service that he completed this spring.

 

I canceled all major services that were not on an emergency basis until reliable parts could be found and tested by myself. The major on 05011994's car showed fatal flaws in a number of parts being supplied through official channels. With the PC statement out of the way that means a new set of bearings straighht out of the box didnt turn. This was found a month after a set of bearings lasted 15 seconds before the engine came back out and the set just prior to that lasted a thousand miles before near completely emptying themselves of grease. Enough was enough!
Since that time I have ordered and cut up thousands of dollars worth of bearings from every supplier and now I know who is selling what, what works and what will only last a short time. I do not take anyones word as to what will work and what wont, 35 years in the Ferrari service business have taught me better than that! There was a time when bearings for every application lasted for many years but that is no longer the case. I have invested a good deal of money and time to assure we are providing the best that can be had regardless of the color of the box.
ASSUME NOTHING these days when it comes to parts. I feel we now know everything needed to once again properly repair our customers cars. Hear say on parts quality doesnt cut it these days.

Due to the problems experianced over the last few years we are now well under way in having our own parts made for us where acceptable quality was not available elsewhere.

Half a story told is just that.....

Dave

 

See why so many people recommend Dave with near-religious fervor?

 

Very interesting comments from Dave Helms. At the risk of swinging this way off topic, can anyone explain what is going on with bearings these days? It seems there is some kind of crisis going on. I got some replacement roller bearings that literally ate themselves up in a very short time. They are labeled "CCWZ" which I belatedly found out is a Chinese manufacturer. Seriously, these had to be made out of old dog food cans. They were wheel bearings and were basically completely worn out in less than 1000 miles. This is a big safety issue, obviously. I don't know who to trust anymore. Are most bearings (even those from well-known US and European manufacturers, Timken, SKF, etc) being made elsewhere? Is there any "safe" brand where you can be assured of getting what you paid for?

 

Could be counterfeit bearings? They are appearing all over the world in different industries.

http://www.connectingindustry.com/story.asp?storycode=185673

 

Exactly what I suspected but that proved to be only one of a number of problems at hand.

Before spelling out what I found I have to say that I did not walk into the bearing manufacturers building and purchase them directly on location. Retailers and wholesalers are always looking for a better margin so.... This is the reason that MilSpec parts are so expensive, a solid paper trail exists and can be traced to the source of the parts, that is not the case here. For the counterfeit bearings to have hit the world market with such an impact a very large supplier had to be at the bottom of it. Someone that supplies bearings to a vast array of industries in very large quantities as the problem came on quite quickly and impacted many industries world wide. The second part of the equation is I believe either the manufacturing spec was lowered in a search for cheaper parts or the manufacturer did it on their own within proper channels. I would hate to think that someone spec'ed the parts lower so they would wear out quicker, hence sell more expensive parts but that is yet another possibility I cant look beyond.

Regardless of the reasoning behind this, one identifying feature of bearings used for cam belt tensioning on the 3X8's is the method of attachment of the outer roller body. The bearings we were supplied by Ferrari for this application in the 90's and back had a clean rolled edge near the seal. The bearings supplied now are cold stamped in this area showing a great deal of splitting of the metal. This alone is not a problem but I will clearly state if this is seen on the bearings I receive, I box them up and get rid of them!!!!! Look at the belt contact area, if it doesn't look like you would want it in constant contact with a rubber belt, trust your feelings as this is yet another feature of another batch of bearings that are failure prone. As Daniel showed in photo's a while back, if you can actually read "SKF" there is a good chance they are counterfeit, the real ones are quite difficult to read the number on. To date I have received at least 4 different types of bearings just for the 3X8 series. The later model bearings have just as many problems but are not easily visually identifiable and is a whole other story.

On the one car where the bearings lasted 15 seconds, nothing was heard what so ever. When we start a car after the engine is reinstalled we have one in the car watching gauges, the radio off, phone off the hook and two sets of eyes watching the engine and listening for problems. In this case the smallest wisp of smoke was seen coming from the front belt area around 5 seconds after start up. It took another 10 seconds to figure out that it couldn't be an exhaust leak as it was forward of the headers and it couldn't be burn off from the headers as it wasn't hot enough yet. No noises, no leaks, nothing out of the norm. Shut it down and drain a few hundred dollars worth of new fluids and pull the whole engine again. What was found was a tensioner bearing with a great deal of rubber transfer on it and a cam belt with a flat spot from where the bearing had momentarily stopped rotating. All the other belt idler positions were clean and rubber free except the one suspect area which upon re assembly to mock up the failure showed the flat spot to align with the suspect bearing. Response? "We'll give you a new bearing...." How about NO THANKS! How about critical area O-ring where some bean counter somewhere in the official supply chain decided they could substitute a SAE sized Butyl O-ring that cost them pennies for the Metric Nitrile O-ring that once marked up double by every hand that touched it cost a good deal of money? Hey, its only .011" smaller in cross section, shouldn't be a problem. Result was a 8" puddle on the floor in 1 minute. Pull that engine back out after 1 minute... "We'll send you a new O-ring".

For a "for profit" business to quit doing the repairs that customers were asking for one had better have good reason. I did in my opinion and I was not willing to use customers cars as a test bed for a new product that was hailed as "good" on the Net. Owners don't want to hear about problems, they want to hear about solutions and it took these actions to identify solutions that satisfied me.

Please excuse the long winded babble but this is not a story that can be told in a sentence or two.

Dave

 

Since the cat is out of the proverbial bag....

Dave, are you seeing this same problem with all bearings for all Ferrari models? Or is it isolated to a specifc model line (all 3x8s, all v-8s, all cars after 1975 before 1994... etc).

I ask because this thread was started by someone with a 355, but you made comments about the 3x8 series.

James in Denver

 

yes, all

 

Dave,
I think I know the answer, but is this true of bearings directly from FNA as well? Just want to be sure.

Thanks,
Dave

 

Off Ferrari subject, but there was an article in Business Week in the latest issue concerning the Chinese manufacturing counterfeit electronics parts and/or stripping commercial-grade components out of electronics and selling them as MIL-SPEC. Some of these low grade parts are finding their way into our military hardware and weapons systems. Moreover, one Chinese company was manufacturing counterfeit Cisco Systems equipment and selling it to the military. This equipment was lacked many of the security systems and would consequently markedly increase the risk of espionage.

This is happening in just about every area - from electronics to pharmaceuticals. The US lawmakers and the custom/trade agencies needs to make a concerted effort to stem the tide of these low grade counterfeit products being imported from China. Forget about the B.S, political correctness and diplomatic niceties, and inform these people in no uncertain terms that they are not going to build their economy on the rubble of American industry.

Sorry for the rant. I guess this really belonged in the P&R section. I'm going to go take my medication now and I'll feel much better very soon, thank you!

 

I didnt follow the box from source to destination as stated earlier.

 

Dave or Daniel are there posted pictures of what all this looks like? a picture is worth 1000 words. What an interesting problem. I have not heard of this in the Vette or BMW circles. Perhaps those car's bearing have too low a mark-up to be worth the conterfeit trouble.

 

The answer to this question is highly relevant to the original poster's question. If service through FOD uses parts obtained through "official" Ferrari channels, does this lower the risk of getting bogus parts? Specifically, does FOD have these bearing issues?

I do not doubt that Dave Helms does a great job up in Boulder. My experience with service at FOD has been very positive and I don't hesitate to recommend them.

 

Short answer---No, it doesn't lower the risk. The Ferrari parts biz is in another world and one that is not easily explainable--------If the average person know how the system works--WOW--It would blow your mind....

In reality any dealer, independent could have these potentail problems. Unless you operate like Dave Helms does and make sure to the very best of his ability the parts are correct. Dave doesn't just open a box, take out a part and assume it is correct...Most dealers do just that....

 

So we can put a rest to this particular thread I will explain the reason for my post as I usually do not involve myself in threads of this nature. My apologies and an explanation up front for doing so.

It seems there is "someone" that has been telling part of a story which states I am no longer doing these repairs. I have heard the same from a few owners now and have identified the source and this will be the last time I deal with this type of issue in a civilized nature.
A statement was made that "I quit doing these repairs" which is partly true. The factual story reads that I quit doing these repairs UNTIL proper and reliable parts could be identified, tested and the owners were assured they were getting the best quality available on the market. A Little difference between the two statements? I happen to believe there is as one is complete nonsense and the other states facts.
I can put anything on the cars and have a high probability of it making it through a one year warranty period but that isn't good enough for me and my bet is most owners are looking for a little better than that. I had the owner of the car that brought this issue to a head in the shop for a day detailing some of his engine parts and he witnessed some of this first hand. When I was asked what was "good and what could be trusted to last" I had no answers as everything we had trusted for decades had now proved to be highly sub standard quality with new parts coming out of yellow boxes failing before they were set down on the bench. Not one part mind you, Many parts and all from trusted names and sources I have used for decades. For better than 30 years I have insisted on OE Ferrari parts only as nothing in that time even came close to the same quality with VERY few exceptions. Times have changed!
On these cars we all, dealer or independent, get the same parts from the same sources. Some are willing to accept hear say as to reliability and durability, I am not. Bad batch? Counterfeit? Poor design? Cheap knock off? Lowered Spec? They all look damn near identical to my eyes.
I cant afford to have months where I eat 268 man hours due to senseless parts failures anymore than I can afford to spend thousands of dollars cutting up new Ferrari parts on a daily basis. In this business it often takes extreme steps like this to gain the knowledge needed to service these cars properly, this happens to be one such case where that first hand knowledge wasn't cheap. This June makes 35 years in the Ferrari business, I'm not going anywhere so I consider this knowledge a good value after the dust settles.

Dave

 

Correction,
268 hrs is what was written off because my gear manufacturer couldnt get his game together. Parts and engine related pieces amounted to 140 some hours over a 2 month period being written off. No matter how its viewed they are ugly numbers.

Lets let this thread drop as it has turned the wrong direction and no good can come of that.

Thanks for the kind words,

Dave