lock replacement | FerrariChat

lock replacement

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by SouthJersey400i, Jun 20, 2014.

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  1. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    The ignition lock in my car has gotten very 'dodgy'. My primary key stopped working almost all together; after a lot of fiddling it will turn and once it turns a small amount it turns easily and car starts. I switched to my secondary key and even though it is slightly bent it works better but can still take a bit of wiggling to get it to turn. I always make sure that the steering wheel is not loading up the lock mechanism before trying it (that is how keys get bent!) It has been lubed.

    I took it to a good local locksmith. He says the "bushing" has quite a bit of play in it and he feels confident that a new bushing with the respective key would do the trick. He is doing some research to try to identify the lock parts and will get back to me.

    Anyone had same issue? Resolution?

    What is procedure for pulling the 'bushing' out of the lock. Locksmith says it should be easy as long as you have a functioning key. He says to turn the key and then there is a release mechanism. Anyone have an idea?

    How about parts for just the key part of the lock? The steering wheel and electrical systems are fine. I know the whole mechanism is German, any chance a BMW lock would be the same? If I find a used lock and key I would have to be sure it was not loose like mine is.

    I look for some great replies.
    Ken
     
  2. Part Time

    Part Time Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 16, 2013
    500
    Port St. Lucie, Fl
    Full Name:
    Gary Shore
    Ken....I cut keys for Chrysler products every day, and I "code" an ignition lock at least once a week. Yes, I know they are not Ferrari, but the principle is very similar, (I also do GM, Ford, and others). There is a key "cylinder", and an outer housing, the lock works by the notches on the key pressing pins or tumblers against spring pressure until the uneven pins sit level in the cylinder and allow it to turn, or the flat tumblers line up in a straight line and allow a "v-block" to retract into the cylinder, again allowing it to rotate. Most cylinders will withdraw from the outer housing when in a certain position with the key in. On a Mopar lock they have to be rotated backwards past the accy position by depressing the two brass pins on each side. With older Ford units there is a small hole in the face of the cylinder that you could push a straight paper clip into and depress a button, with the key turning back past accy, the cylinder would slide out. On older GM locks you were forced to pull the steering wheel and turn signal switch and hammer a small flat screwdriver at a secret spot on the pot-metal column housing to detent a release button. I am sure our key cylinders will come apart somehow, just have to find the "trick"
    And you are surely correct, the lock cylinders come from some other brand, Ferrari assembles car with parts from all over, just like everyone else...only they cost more..lots more...
    I have not looked at my ignition cylinder yet, it works ok, but I will be disassembling my door cylinders and repairing/cleaning them in the coming months, they are sticky/grinding.
    Gary
     
  3. theobordeaux

    theobordeaux Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2011
    482
    Bordeaux (France)
    Full Name:
    Theodore
    #3 theobordeaux, Jun 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,231
    Hi Ken

    As far as I know, the antitheft lock mechanism is unique to Ferrari and the 400 part is shared with a bunch of other Ferraris. I thought I needed to replace mine (turns out mine was OK) and I had a heck of a job tracking a used one down (couldn't stomach the Eurospares price of $2700 - every time I look it goes up again). It was in the Ads section for ages, but seems to be gone now. PM me if you are interested.

    Cheers

    Aidan
     
  5. theobordeaux

    theobordeaux Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2011
    482
    Bordeaux (France)
    Full Name:
    Theodore
    #5 theobordeaux, Jun 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    It is the black plastic ignition module on the back of the ignition switch that has worn out. Look up the several in-depth posts that I have submitted over the years, in this forum the technical forum,the TR forum and the 308 forum. The only permanent solution is to by-pass the switch and install a conventional modern switch in a more practical location. If the thought of going anything but pure stock repulses you, well then, you are doomed to the constant hassle of continuous laborious replacement. I hope that this is of some value To you. Thank you so very much. Jq.
     
  7. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    I removed the trim pieces and the part number for the lock assembly (black part) seems quite a different piece from the robust piece that locks the steering wheel.

    There is clearly a part number Neman 68, Neman is a German make and I learned that when I bought a set of keys (10 blanks). According to my locksmith, Gary is probably right that there is a magic trick to just pull the cylinder out of the housing. There appears to be a square pin on left side of housing just behind the front plate. It could very well be holding the cylinder in place. It looks like it was tapped into place but does not stick out enough to pull back out; It might have to be drilled out (using one of those square drill bits) :)

    Jacques, I'll start a thread search of your posts; hopefully using your 'name' in a search will work. But give me a hint, is it possible to change the cylinder?

    Ken
     
  8. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    I found this thread useful but depressing!
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/327351-original-ignition-steering-lock-cylinders.html

    Apparently, the whole mechanism back to the steering wheel needs to be removed to access pieces that need to be drilled out for replacing the cylinder. One suggestion I will discuss with my locksmith is that if the 'play' I have is worn tumblers, maybe he can measure the current gaps and cut a new key with no play.

    This is looking more like a winter R&R job not mid year; I can make do with my spare key for now.
    Ken
     
  9. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    Go to my post of 2/08/13. It will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about the subject. Including the fact that the ignition module is a common '80's BMW part available at their parts counters.. Also the superior SWF is the original manufacturer. Also, removing the steering wheel, and raising the steering column will greatly facilitate the switch
    access procedure. In addition, if you have a sunroof that opens, that is where your feet should protrude. Doing this in a public place, will greatly multiply the stress factor. Also,
    the Parts Bin.com usually stocks the
    SWF part.
    the part numbers are included in the post. Buy two of them,because you will surely be needing it in future.
    again...the metal key cylinder is NOT the villain,
    it is the key grooves in the black plastic module the wear, and,, or melt. Locate the post, and You will save hours, and hours of frustration. I hope that helps you. Thank you so very much. Jq.
     
  10. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Jacques
    I found your post from 2013. I found parts via BMW sources, about $100 +/_. Parts Bin.com seems to have been hijacked by a more generic web site.

    I have the tach out already and steering wheel off so this looks like a tight but possible job to change. I see how to unbolt steering column as well. I am just not sure why changing this piece at back of switch will make up for the slop in my key and let it turn correctly. What were your symptoms that lead you to this solution?

    If same as mine this is a no-brainer and does not need to wait until winter R&R. In any case for $100 and a few hours body torture it is worth a try.
    Ken
     
  11. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    I have done this procedure twice. The first time was ten or twelve years back, after I had owned my 1980 400i for several years with your same experience....key wiggling or sometimes not even being able to turn the key. The key actually snapped off in the lock, leaving me with a frog hair's stub to grab with a Kelly hemostat, once. I removed the entire lock /anti-theft cylinder and took it to a highly trained locksmith (U.S. Army trained). and we found that the key lock was perfect.. Then we unscrewed the little back module behind the assembly, and found that the heat generated by the electrical current had melted the guts within where the key fits in the module to turn it to the several positions within the switch. The quest for the module the fist time was a trek. When I located them, I bought three. I have one as a spare, and it is not for sale..
    These beauties will soon go the way of the dinosaur. At least, when I originally found them, I informed fellow "chatters" on p.m.s, so as not to let some F-car parts guys gobble them up. I am truly over the drama.I hope that this is of some help to you. "Good Night,and Good Luck" (E.R.M.). Jq.
     
  12. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Jacques
    Exactly what I wanted to hear. I will order part or two within 5 minutes. I worked backward from the BMW part # and found that BMW 1600, 1602, 2002 and 2002ti's all use this part. BMW are pretty good about not deserting their old car followers, unlike some brands! BMW keep the mirror switch in stock to our advantage and that is from late '70's.

    Thanks again
    Ken
     
  13. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    I ordered the switch per previous post; the seller had 10 in stock. Using the vehicles listed for that part I did a search for the lock and key for a 1973 BMW 2002tii. Voila!
    Part # 32 32 1 113 711 is the BMW version of the whole lock assembly. Most of it we can throw away but the key looks identical and the lock should be exactly the same to mate up to the switch on the back. It is only $142 vs our $2150! I think a good locksmith could make the transplant. There are plenty of these on line so I did not buy one yet. I believe in Jacques so I will change the switch first. This would be winter project in any case because of the need to remove the whole assembly form car for this one.
    Ken
     
  14. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,231
    I got the electrical part of the switch from Pelican Parts, IIRC, about 5 years ago for about $120. Hopefully, you won't need the anti-theft lock part.

    Aidan
     
  15. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    I got the BMW switch. Since I already had the tach and lower trim out of car it took less than an hour to swap the switches. I made a little sketch of the wire locations and it was pretty easy to make the swap.

    Both of my ignition keys now work easily in spite of the vertical play of the keys in the lock. Thanks Jacques; you were right on.
    Ken
     
  16. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    Hooorugh...carry on. Jq.
     

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