Looking At 2001 456A 28k Miles. Thoughts Please. | FerrariChat

Looking At 2001 456A 28k Miles. Thoughts Please.

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by scowman, Feb 9, 2018.

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  1. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Stu Boogie
    #1 scowman, Feb 9, 2018
    I'm looking at a 2001 456 Auto with 28k miles

    Before I start, of course I will have a full PPI but, I would like to bounce this car off the board.

    *Gray/Burgundy
    *Carfax looks reasonable with lots of entries over the years
    *Once dime-sized paint chip on left rear quarter. Otherwise paint looks good.
    *Interior looks good for miles. No excessive wear on seats or other items.
    *Leather on dash/steering wheel/air bag needs redoing.
    *Sticky parts need to be done.
    *Seat belt springs need refreshing.
    *Probably needs a major including hoses, water pump and other "sensuous" parts.
    *No other non-scheduled major service appears to be done (shocks/valve guides, bushings, suspension, etc.)
    *Asking price is 62k.

    I like the car! Needs some TLC but that is also something I like. Nothing major...

    Here is the punch line. So I'm looking at the car and it's idling and has been full warmed up. I walked around the car several times inspecting it. I'm wrapping up my visual inspection and talking about next steps and I see bluish smoke coming out of the passenger tail pipe. Nothing out of the driver tail pipe. This goes on for a minute or two while we say goodbye and he drives away. This was not happening before. In fact, it happened after the electric fans kicked in.

    Again, I'm going to have it inspected including a leak down, but what can cause that? I've heard valve guides are a known issue. Not sure a leak down can detect that though if the valve seats are proper. I remember back in the day checking for valve guides on deceleration (rings on acceleration) watching for smoke out the back. Is that still the best way without major effort?

    Thoughts please.

    Should I walk away?

    Thanks

    Ken
     
    ItalianOne likes this.
  2. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,305
    OnTheSerpentMound
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    #2 bergxu, Feb 9, 2018
    Ken, although not as widespread on the 456M as in the earlier cars, valve guides can pop up being bad from time to time. I'd do a compression and leakdown and see what the results say.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  3. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Stu Boogie
    #3 scowman, Feb 9, 2018
    How will a leak down or compression test pick up a valve guide problem? Will it cause the valve to seat improperly?
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,082
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #4 tazandjan, Feb 9, 2018
    Yup, valve sits at an angle in the guide, preventing the valve from seating completely.
     
  5. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

    Jun 30, 2010
    1,190
    CA & DC
    #5 killer58, Feb 10, 2018
    Several of the guides in my M GTA went bad at 17k miles.
    First indication was it failed CA smog.
    The repair bill was $11,000.
    Luckily, this was done before I bought it.

    I budgeted $70K for mine to include purchase and any issues I discovered in the PPI.
    When all is said and done, I’ll be just over that, but it will be exactly the car I would have spec’ed new.

    If it’s the car you really want, factor the valve guides into the TLC you say it needs and adjust your offer accordingly.
    If the valves are done in conjunction with the belts/major, you can save a bit on labor.
     
  6. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Stu Boogie
    #6 scowman, Feb 10, 2018
    I really like the car. Wants 62k
     
  7. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,305
    OnTheSerpentMound
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    #7 bergxu, Feb 10, 2018
    Well, if it's smoking, you'd better look into it before pulling the trigger! That'll be a nasty surprise.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  8. rviani

    rviani Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    73
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Ron Viani
    #8 rviani, Feb 11, 2018
    I would suggest care. From personal experience (not on a Ferrari) you COULD easily have an oil burning problem which does not show up in either a compression or leak down test. As you suggested oil smoke on deceleration is a good indication of valve guide leakage.
     

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