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Looking at buying a GT V12 - typical maintenance?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by synchro, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    Scott
    This comment in another thread (below) piqued my interest in what does it take to maintain the 330/365 V-12's?

    1) What is required to maintain these -
    perhaps just valve adjust, timing chain adjust, water pump check, valve cover gaskets when leaks start, engine/transmission/transaxle/brakes flush and refill, chassis/ball joint lube, anything else?
    2) How long is a typical interval?

    I'd like to evaluate how much that I could do myself and appreciate any comments.
    Thank you



     
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  3. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,074
    Central NJ
    This isn't an easy question to give you an answer to because there are a lot of variables. Here are a couple of thoughts:

    All of the cars are OLD and hand built this means that major work is involved in making the car reliable. Even if the car only has 10K miles and lived in doors, all of the rubber and seals are shot. Most 2+2s suffer from differed maintenance issues so this can be a problem, you would be amazed how much a shiny paint job can hide from the inexperienced buyer.

    Once you are past this point (either by buying a car that has been fixed up or having this done under your ownership) you need to think about how you want to use the car and what codition do you want to keep it in. If this a car for regular driving, not 10/10ths driving or show (i.e. not for track use or concourse) you will have mostly basic maintenance as you mentioned. I budget about $5k per year for basic maintenance + upgrades. If you have a good car and use it regularly I would expect you could get by with $2.5K (or less if you do much of the work yourself).

    Approach an old V-12 Ferrari as if it was an American car of similar vintage the add a multiplier of 3X to it. The old ones aren't cheap, but in my opinion, they are worth it.

    I hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  4. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,074
    Central NJ
    One more thing,

    If you do work on your Dino or have experience maintaining motorcycles (sportbikes not harleys) you should be able to do most of the maintenance yourself.

    Art S.
     
  5. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    I got all fluids & filters changed, whatever tuning tweaks needed, misc. odds and ends done this year at Norwood Performance in Dallas, ran close to $1000.00; two years prior I used another independent import shop closer to me but switched to Norwood when their Ferrari guy left...their labor rates were about 10% less so total was about $900.00. All of this could be owner-done but I want the pros to have a good look at my car yearly and it's worth it. Valve adjustment is several hundred $$ more; it's labor intensive and removal and replacement of valve covers is much trickier than on an American V8 of the same era. I'm going to take on that job soon since I need solve the seepage problems before oil ruins the original black wrinkle paint finish on the covers.

    I've done more small and not so small repair and reconditioning jobs on my 330 than I can remember...I recently took the alternator out for a rebuild and traded out four of my Borranis for used correct size ones...they're in great shape but needed extensive cleanup and reconditioning. It's a very tedious process and I'm doing it in small increments.

    To sum up, for me working on the 330 is no problem because it's not a daily driver, the 250 and 330 2+2 models are very straightforward and solidly built cars, routine-maintenance and wear-replacement type parts aren't hard to find, and you can find rarer parts as NOS or used but but often at a stiff price. I know what to leave to the pros, as well.

    If you're not already familiar, check out tomyang.net--the home base for hands-on Vintage 12 owners.
     
  6. DBR328&330

    DBR328&330 Formula Junior

    May 31, 2001
    605
    Winchester, VA
    Full Name:
    Daniel Reese
    Scott,

    There are two major issues. One is deferred maintainance/ getting the car to the point you want (hopefully not to perfection!!). The second is maintaining it that way. Art S made great points. I am the latter of Art's description- ie I had the work done under my ownership.

    Between the selling dealer before I bought the car and me the car has had a driver quality paint job (which has set well over the year and no rust), redye interior, rad redone, new coils and ignition wires, rebuilt alt and volt reg,valve adj,new batt, all fluids changed,new tires, new tie rods, completely rebuilt brakes, new wheel bearings,new exhaust, new clutch, carbs rebuilt, rubber donut replaced, allignment, various cosmetic things to bring back originality (eg wiper blades, jack plugs), new light switch and probably other things I forgot.

    The tranny and diff seem perfect, but the engine one day (hopefully years away) will need rebuilt. The engine doesnt smoke except at startup. When I drive the car it feels GREAT with absolutely no distracting stuttering/ noises/vibration/smells/smoke etc. It pulls like a locomotive! Tracks perectly straight.

    You can imagine this cost alot of money! However, there are no current issues and once set up they stay set up- been 6 months since in the shop.

    Now the good news- for a good long time (at 2000 miles/year or so) I should only have to have fluids changed as well as tend to anything that goes wrong, which shouldnt be too much at this point. I am hoping at this point the car will only cost a couple grand per year at this point.

    These are great cars and I have no regrets. Go for it but just accept that it may cost quite alot along the way. It has been generally agreed by us that a minimum of $10,000 is required for essentially immediate needs ONCE you buy the BEST car you can

    Dan
     
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  8. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    On top of the $1000.00 for routine maintenance this year, I will have spent an additional $2,200.00 on parts, the bulk of which is the new Borranis and associated costs, an alternator rebuild, and a few other odds and ends. Labor by me. Next year, I expect to spend maybe $1,000.00 getting the instruments rebuilt and perhaps I will buy a home car lift and start doing all the routine stuff myself.
     
  9. grahamdelooze

    grahamdelooze Karting

    Mar 7, 2004
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    england
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    graham de looze
    if youre doing a valve job, dont forget to take the screws out of the dizzy drive to cover and use a cheap very thin paint scraper at the front seal to help slide the cover back on. if you have non original ball nose tappet screws there is a flat which must be on the valve stem. easy job.
     
  10. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    Do new Borranis sell for under $2200.00?
     
  11. Telerding

    Telerding Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2004
    362
    Santa Maria/CA
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    Tom Elerding
    Yes, I'd like a new set of Borranis for $2200 also!!
     
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  13. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    What would one expect to pay for a set of Borannis?
    Ballparking, not actual sale so all guesses are welcome.
     
  14. sjvalin

    sjvalin Formula Junior

    Aug 31, 2004
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    Nevada County, CA
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    Steve Valin
    I believe they are $1500/ea new, or about $1200/ea refinished via Shaughnessy/Cork Adams. At least for ones that fit a Daytona. Earlier wheels might be more difficult to come by and more expensive.

    -steve
     
  15. Erik330

    Erik330 Formula Junior

    May 8, 2004
    667
    Ohio
    $500/wheel refinished by Dayton Wire Wheel.
     
  16. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,074
    Central NJ
    I'm guessing the $2200 price included a trade in.

    Art S.
     

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