Looking at California and need some advice | FerrariChat

Looking at California and need some advice

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by Forzait60, Apr 8, 2019.

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  1. Forzait60

    Forzait60 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2019
    10
    Full Name:
    Ethan
    Hi all

    I new to the forum and need some advice, I’m looking at 2012 California and it would be my first Ferrari and a daily driver. Currency has 14K miles. I would put around 8K per year. I’m wondering how to estimate the deprecation based on the miles and age in 2 years. Additionally it has carbon fiber race seats which I’m being told was more expensive then the typical power seats. I have not seen any other Calis with this option, do you think it will help or hurt the value? I think I can get a pretty good deal on it.
    Thanks!
     
  2. Redneck Slim

    Redneck Slim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 10, 2011
    1,440
    Palo Alto,CA,USA
    Full Name:
    Walt Kimball
    The race seats were seldom ordered and were then dropped as an option,so they are rare. An msrp I have seen showed cost about $7100. They came in S/M/L,so make sure they fit you.
     
  3. Forzait60

    Forzait60 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2019
    10
    Full Name:
    Ethan
    Thanks for the info. I drove it for a bit and they seemed to fit but are a bit harsh. As something rare would that add value to a Ferrari? On a regular car that can kill value. At the deal they are giving me this is most likely to my chance to get my dream car. I would never buy one from a non Ferrari dealer. I just don’t want to get killed trading in 2 year as for a Cali T.
     
  4. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
    628
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    Adam
    What is the agreed price? I'm biased but I'd shoot for a 2013 so you get the Cali30 upgrades. The Cali30's are holding values better than gen1's as well.
     
  5. Forzait60

    Forzait60 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2019
    10
    Full Name:
    Ethan
    I’m looking at 107K. Really that is about my budget max. I will look further for a 30 but haven’t found a a good deal on any yet. Thanks for the advice
     
  6. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    25,865
    DFW, Texas
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    Tom C
    14K miles + 8 K per annum for two years puts you at 30 K. Ferrari buyers seem to be mileage adverse, at least in the US. Could be a hard sell.

    There are about a dozen Calis with 30K miles, out of almost 400 on cars.com. Asking in the range of 80 - 90 K. So, just a guess, somebody here I'm sure knows better than I, but maybe you'd get 60 K or so for trade in?

    T
     
  7. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,797
    Gladwyne PA
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    Morrie
    I think race seats on that car would make it worth less. Take it for a half hour drive harsh might turn into pain. I think race seats belong on a track car, the Cali is a GT car, and if you are thinking about resale, you would need to find a buyer that fits the seats. There is a reason that very few of these cars had racing seats. Most smart Ferrari dealers always see the chance to resell any car they build for a customer and they will gently (some not so gently) push buyers to options that will give the car the best resale, and race seats are not on that list. I buy a lot of cars, but I would not buy one with those seats unless it was so cheap I could pull the seats and put another set in.
     
  8. Forzait60

    Forzait60 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2019
    10
    Full Name:
    Ethan
    Thanks Carnut. I was thinking that might be the case. Ive seen a few in 90K range but not from a authorized dealer. I’m very hesitant to buy from a non Ferrrari dealer. can you I be the Power Warranty added if purchased from a non Ferrari dealer? Seems like the right move is to pass on this car.
     
  9. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
    628
    Tampa, FL
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    Adam
    Yeah you can just bring it by the Ferrari Dealer, get it CPO'd ($900 I think) and the add the NPW which should be $3600/2 years now. I'm pretty sure that's how it works but you can always call your local dealer first.
     
  10. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
    785
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Shawn Hicks
    While they may not be up to your spec there are a few calfornia’s at f dealers under 100k. But they probably are lower year and higher miles. Another thing that to me is really unknown is the actual 2 year depreciation curve and for a non Cali 30 it could be steeper then we think. Just in the last year I’ve watched them fall faster then I expected across the board with the t taking the worst hit. As more portofino’s are on the streets and judging from actual customer reviews I see them sliding more, but I won’t speculate on just how much. I’ve also heard of guys being offered very lowball numbers, as low as 35k, for higher mile 2010 cars. At that price point it would almost be worth just keeping.
     
  11. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
    628
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    Adam
    35K? lol. Yeah I'd moth ball it and sell in 15 years after people lust for a "classic" NA engine Ferrari.
     
  12. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    25,865
    DFW, Texas
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    Tom C
    That's my plan! Unfortunately, at my current pace it'll have a s**t ton of miles. But, I'll counteract that by entering it a few concours. LOL.

    OP...if your finances are in order, stretching a few grand over the life of the car, is worth it to get a spec you like. IMO. At the end of the day, if you're styling and profiling around town in the F-car of your dreams, with a big from on your face, what's a few grand? Eat beans and rice for a few weeks! Life's too short.

    T
     
  13. AD211

    AD211 Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2017
    1,040
    South Carolina
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    Andy
    I crossed the 20k mile threshold this past weekend on my 2010. Bought it 1 1/2 yrs ago with 14k. Guess I’m in it for the long haul like you Tom! Lots of smiles and miles to come.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    tomc likes this.
  14. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
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    Tom C
    Yep, just two worthless Ferrari being enjoyed to the max! LOL.
    OP - drop the hammer, and post the pics! :)
    T
     
  15. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
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    Adam
    I third that. DRIVE IT! I'm a second owner. The first owner bought it at 241K and sold to me at 135K+taxes...he drove it only 4,600 miles. WHAT A WASTE OF $106,000! I'm 4 months into ownership and I'm at 7,900 miles. This damn car is absolutely a joy to ring out. The Ferrari Sport Exhaust screaming, RPM's climbing, the rich smell of fuel burning, ahhhh what an experience. And what a damn shame for every F-Car that sits unloved in a garage, a damn shame.
     
  16. AD211

    AD211 Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2017
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    South Carolina
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    Andy
    FYI, sidetrack...I’m liking your black rims more and more Fireman. Gonna have mine powder coated.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  17. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
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    Adam
    tomc likes this.
  18. JimmyChooToo

    JimmyChooToo Karting

    Aug 7, 2017
    51
    If you do decide to get the 2012, know that you can get 15 hp (according to the factory literature) by just adding the factory sport exhaust (~$2,500). If you can tell the difference between 490 and 475hp, you are a much much better driver than me.

    Also most Cali30 came with start/stop (HELE) and personally I’m not a fan of any of those systems for the long term engine life. That’s another thing the 2012 has going for it in my opinion.
     
  19. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
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    Adam
    My Cali30 does not have HELE and I added the sport exhaust. It's more than $2500 even at a wholesale level. I think I paid $3800 shipped from EuroSpares.uk
    The increase in HP is noticeable in the higher RPM range after it hits its peak numbers at 5,000RPM. I agree the start/stop causes unnecessary wear and non-30's are a good bang for the buck BUT the difference between the two cars was very noticeable for me.
     
  20. Forzait60

    Forzait60 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2019
    10
    Full Name:
    Ethan
    Thanks all, some good info. Extended drive today with the carbon race seats and they were actually pretty comfortable. Amazing Car. Huge Simles. Very close to deal for my dream to own a Ferrari :) They showed me what 12s are going for at auction. Hopefully I will not take a bath on it in 2 yrs when I look to upgrade to a T.
     
  21. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
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    Michael
    Curious about your comment about the HELE feature (being detrimental) for “the long term engine life”. Would you like to explain why you say that?
     
  22. JimmyChooToo

    JimmyChooToo Karting

    Aug 7, 2017
    51
    I don’t think the start-stop system is a big deal on Ferrari’s, especially in a sports car that typically doesn’t rack up 100,000+ miles like Toyota’s and Honda’s. I’m just bringing it up as a pro/con in the decision making. If you go to Wikipedia, they have a section on “Concerns”.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start-stop_system

    I will say that 30 Hp is very hard to discern in my experience. I remember the auto reviewers writing that there were huge variations in the weight of the California test cars Ferrari provided at the original Italian launch, not to mention the natural dyno horsepower variation between engines.

    A 2012 Cali with light weight sport seats & 15hp from the sport exhaust vs. a stock Cali30, I know I couldn’t tell the power difference. I Stage 2 tuned a small turbo 2.0L from 185 to 230hp (45hp and 20% gain) and even that wasn’t very noticeable to me in everyday driving. I’m sure Lewis Hamilton can tell a 5hp difference, but I couldn’t.
     
  23. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
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    Adam
    I guess everyone is different but a Base Cali and a Cali30 with HS was night and day to me. The T was faster and the Portofino was laughably fast, I was speechless after the Portofino drive. That car is going to jaw drop some idiot in a Z06 vette flexing at a traffic light on day lol. That said, I'm all about N/A and a deal, so Cali30 it was.
     
    4th_gear likes this.
  24. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    25,865
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    Tom C
    FM...Did you compare Cali 30 HS and non-HS? I've long been interested in that comparison...T
     

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