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Looking at moving from a 458 to 812

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by Big A, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    76
    Australia
    Hey there Fchatters,

    I have been in a 458 for 4 years now and what a great car it has been. Till this day every time I drive it I'm blown away by what an absolute marvel that engine is. Also I think visually its still a stunning looking car.

    In saying that for some reason even though I don't drive the 458 that often I have had an itch for something new. Don't ask me why considering I still love the 458 and don't use it that often.

    Problem is for me to replace it, it would have to be with something special and just as exciting to drive as the 458. For me the characteristics of the 458 engine is what has me hooked to the car. The sound, the instant throttle response and that sense of urgency in the way it revs / accelerates is addictive. Having driven the standard Huracan and the 488 I never got that same feeling as I do from the 458. So doing some homework in reading and watching videos the only car within my financial reach ( just ), that I believe would be an upgrade and still have the same engine characteristic's as the 458 is the 812 superfast.

    I personally think the 812 is a stunning looking car and imagine the engine would be similar in character to the 458 just with more power which is a bonus. Up until now I never seriously considered the 812 as its a lot more than I was willing to spend. But slowly I convinced myself that a slightly used one for around $650k this is in Australia is something I would consider. Then from there I went into a dealership late last year and they said you can get into a decent spec one new for mid $700's. So over the last few months I conditioned myself to thinking ok $750k new for a 812 is not so bad. And now here I am after having specked one up over the weekend going hey I have come this far why not just get exactly the spec I want and that came in at $825k.

    At this stage I haven't driven one even they offered when I was in over the weekend. I normally wont drive a car until I have made up my mind with regards to willing to commit those sort of dollars. I now have a drive booked in with them this weekend as I have decided if I am happy with it I would be willing to spend the $$$. Even though I am still not 100% sure exactly why I am upgrading a car that I love.

    So I guess for those who possibly own both or have owned a 458 and moved to a 812 is the 812 what I am hoping and expect it to be? I understand that 812 is a GT but what does that mean exactly? I mean does it not go and handle like a sports car? I have heard that its not as sharp in handling as the 458 but with the 4 wheel steer its still a turns very well. I don't track my 458 and wont track the 812 so is the handling / steering so different on the road. The engine which I believe is the key thing. I am imagining its basically the 458 engine in the character and feel but with a whole lot more power. Is that a fair comparison of engine?

    I am under 40 ( Just ) and some have said to me why would you go the V12 GT. The V8 Ferraris are sportier and look better. To me the 812 is stunning and I think the V12 Ferrari is the ultimate engine. The 458 is the first Ferrari / exotic I have owned and I feel blessed to have owned what I believe is one of the best if not the best V8 engine ever made. Now I life would only be complete if I have had the privilege of owning what I believe is the best V12 engine ever made.

    Any advice or opinions on this would be much appreciated and greatly assist me in making a decision.

    thank you
     
  2. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Rookie

    Feb 16, 2011
    4,978
    Bournemouth, UK
    If you experience a Ferrari V12 engine you will forget that the V8s even exist...
     
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  3. Tireman

    Tireman Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 13, 2011
    170
    Canada
    Take an F12 Berlinetta for a test drive and you will know what to do
     
  4. gilly6993

    gilly6993 Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2009
    1,878
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I had a 458 for 5 years....moved to a V12 GT (Lusso)....there is nothing like it.....
     
  5. spyder625

    spyder625 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 16, 2017
    468
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Mike
    so your not missing your V8 at all... time to take a look i guess and see for my self.. thanks
     
  6. Gullwing

    Gullwing Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 30, 2016
    180
    I've driven the 812 a lot and it's great fun. Perhaps you should consider doing one of the Pilota Sport courses in Italy? It's about 10k EUR and you will get to thrash a 488 and a 812 around Fiorano. Good fun and you'll learn more about the cars driving them back to back.
     
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  7. gilly6993

    gilly6993 Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2009
    1,878
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Not even a little bit.....I traded it because I have 2 little kids and the 458 wasn't practical along with my GT3RS.....even without the kids in the car I thoroughly enjoy it.....
     
  8. Dolceexte

    Dolceexte Formula 3

    Dec 20, 2015
    1,002
    812 sound and engine is something truly different. You will enjoy it running up the RPMs. It is a GT...but if you don’t track no worries there.
     
  9. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    76
    Australia
    Thank you all for the feedback. I am yet to hear anyone say they preferred the NA V8 over the V12 so I think that pretty much says it all. I guess I just needed some reassurance that I am making the right decision being such a big commitment. It’s not every day that you buy a car that not so long ago would have been a wild dream.

    I am pretty well decided on the options and spec but will post up what I’m thinking a little later. Would love to hear opinions and see if I have missed any options that others would add.
     
  10. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

    Jul 19, 2006
    9,426
    USA
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    Driving my 458 makes me feel like a pro athlete; driving my F12 makes me feel like I am the team owner.
    :)
     
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  11. BG23

    BG23 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2015
    346
    Australia
    I think you'll love it. What's the current wait time until delivery?
     
  12. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    76
    Australia
    Been told around 18 months but won’t know until we lock in spec and find a build slot. Hoping no later than 18 months. Is that normal wait time in Australia or is that something they tell you to create urgency in making you commit? Going in this weekend to take a drive and finalise the spec.
     
  13. BG23

    BG23 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2015
    346
    Australia
    I am not sure on timeframes unfortunately.
     
  14. ka50b

    ka50b Rookie

    Dec 28, 2018
    19
    IRVINE
    Full Name:
    zhiyuan ma
    order an exhaust from FI and put on 812, you 'll find you are in the best car in the world.
     
  15. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    76
    Australia
    So this is what we have put together so far.

    Rosso Corsa paint with Nero Black trim. I had the black racing wheel option but actually prefer the standard wheel in gloss black. Yellow brake calipers. Black exhaust pipes. Carbon front insert. Carbon front spoiler. Carbon side skirts. Carbon mirrors. Carbon rear bumper sides. Kept the rear diffuser in red as I think it looks better and breaks up the carbon on the back end. & of course the shields.

    Interior: Electric seats with the diamond pattern. Red stitching throughout. The prancing horse on the head rest in red stitching. Yellow rev counter. Alcantara inserts in seat centre, lower dash, door trims and upper tunnel. Embroided floor mats. The red leather inner detail inserts that goes on the dash and the upper centre tunnel. Carbon fibre driver zone with LEDs. Carbon dash inserts. Carbon fibre console bridge. Carbon fibre internal door handles. Passenger display.

    And lastly the lift kit and front & rear camera.

    I think that's all of it. Anyone think I have missed anything?

    As much as I would love to go a non standard Rosso colour the additional cost would be another $50k-$70k here in Australia and I am already stretching it with all the carbon pieces I have added.

    Any thoughts? Is there anything you would add or delete?
     
  16. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2013
    2,243
    Texas
    Full Name:
    John
    That will be a sharp spec. One thing that is neat about the 812 is that you can go sporty or elegant. We did zero carbon fiber with a leather wrapped steering wheel with the shift lights. Going more for a classic GT look. Ordered the matching luggage because we plan to take trips in her. So far just driving around town mostly.

    We swapped a 488 for it and they are just different animals. I have no experience with the 458.

    Drives great even with the long nose. But that V12. It is like sonic sex. Such a visceral experience that has no comparison in my limited experience. The car is like a kitten if you want or a raging lion if you prefer. Simply brilliant.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  17. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    76
    Australia
    Thank you @jumpinjohn . I like what your saying about the V12 experience. That's exactly what I am looking for and hoping it will be. Will go for the first drive in one tomorrow and if its what I expect it to be then I will pull the trigger.

    Funny thing about building up such an experience is your expectations are so high that you risk being disappointed. Though I remember my first drive in the 458 which was first in any Ferrari. Went in with high expectations as you do in your first Ferrari experience and came out absolutely blown away. Was grinning from ear to ear for a week. I knew then and there I had to have one. And till this day after every drive the grin is still there.

    I am hoping that is exactly how tomorrows drive will go. Then I will have to suffer and wait till I get one.
     
  18. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2013
    2,243
    Texas
    Full Name:
    John
    First time I started a V12 I blushed like a girl. You will love it. :)


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  19. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 10, 2011
    257
    California
    I bought a 458 in 2011. I have absolutely loved it. Just fantastic to drive in every way. The linearity and feel of the engine and the entire car is just incredible.
    I just received my 812 about 3 weeks ago. I have only driven it several times due to travel and getting it wrapped/etc.

    I can tell you that the 812 is fantastic. But it is a different experience. The seating position is further back. It is wider. But the car does "shrink" around you. It is easy to drive but has a well of depth of power that the 458 can't touch.

    I feel comfortable letting most of the people I trust drive the 458. Maybe because I have it had longer :). But the 812 requires paying more attention and it is easier to get into a dangerous situation because of the power if the driver is not paying attention and mashes the throttle. It just explodes.

    Both of them have sound that is unique. And different than each other. Both of them have so much performance that most people will not extract them on the street. As I mentioned before, the 812 has so much power and technology advancement over the 458, that it indisputable which one was created when. But the linearity, responsiveness, etc of the 812 engine has that same character and feel of the 458 as well that you mention. Though more torque and a longer and wider powerband. I do feel that you can extract sports car performance out of it for sure. But it is heavier and wider of a vehicle. This is why the Pista has nearly the same performance #s.

    Age wise, when I was 35, I bought a 360 stick. And a millimeter away from buying an F40 for USD$350K (a mistake that I didn't!). At 45, the 458. Now Portofino, 812, and soon Pista. That is not a statement of bragging. It is a statement that when I was 35, I only wanted mid-engine. Around 50, I started wanting V-12 like an 812 in the last few years. And also expanding my interest across the product line as well. Awareness of mortality became very evident as well, and I realized that F cars was #1 hobby for me. So I went in full force.

    812 is full force with the newest tech scalpel. 458 was almost full force with previous top tech scalpel. But they both make you feel like the best driver on earth.

    I had planned to sell the 458. But I don't want to now. It is just a definitive point in Ferrari product line (to me) that I want to keep this car. So now I have both happily.

    Apologize for rambling and apologize if anything in the car list sounded like bragging. Just indicating that my taste changed over time as my view on my own life changed.

    Hope that helps.
     
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  20. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    76
    Australia
    Thank you @gzachary . Definitely helps hearing other people’s opinion on the two cars.

    Like you said the 458 is such a great car which is why it’s so hard making sense of replacing it. And I’m not in a position to hold onto both. So the 812 has to be something that I find very special to move out of the 458 for.

    Booked in for a test drive in a few hours from now. Excited & nervous. Will post back thoughts later today.
     
  21. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2013
    2,243
    Texas
    Full Name:
    John
    Anxious to hear your thoughts!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  22. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    3,712
    Gzach what a great write up.

    Having owned 3 458 variants and Pista in future, i find myself actually more interested in the V12’s.
     
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  23. GameMaker

    GameMaker Karting
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 17, 2014
    246
    WA State
    Waiting to hear about your test drive!

    I have a bit over 600 miles on my 812. The car is really unbelievable. There is nothing else like it around on so many levels. I seriously doubt you will be disappointed.

    Your spec sounds pretty good although I personally went more creature comforts and less carbon. YMMV.
     
  24. Big A

    Big A Karting

    Jan 21, 2015
    76
    Australia
    So its the morning after the test drive. 45min run in Sydney though did find a few decent stretches of road to open her up. Verdict: Extremely conflicted. And now I understand when people say its different to the 458.

    Its a brilliant car. Its seriously fast. When I hear things like 30% faster up shift I always refer back to my 458 and go seriously how much faster can a gear shift be. Then I drove the 812 yesterday and now I see what they mean. As I was exiting the dealership drive way I was thinking that front end is long but by the end of the drive I cant say I noticed it and the car felt much smaller. I was actually impressed with the handling. For a GT I felt it was sharp and precious on turn in.

    The engine. Extremely fast. And I don't think I got to red line once. Only went over 7000 rpm once or twice due to a lack of road. At first I thought its not that loud. I was expecting more volume. Then as I drove it more I see the beauty in the sound of the V12, its a continues high pitch build up as you goes up the rev range. Distinctly different to the sound of the 458. Hard to explain but from this limited experience its like I can hear the scream of the 812 but I can feel the scream of the 458. Am I imagining it, or do you feel the sound of a 458 through your whole body not just through your ears. I did not get that sensation in the 812. I think part of it is the distinct change in tone you get from the 458 when the exhaust flaps open at around 3000 rpm then continues to build from there. The 812 did not have a significant change in tone but was just a continues steady build up.

    The other thing which has me perplexed was the punchiness if that's such a word of the 458 engine compared to the 812. Ill try and explain as best as I can. So your cruising along in the 458 at 60kph which is around 40mph your sitting at 3000rpm and you smash the throttle. Bang, the thing is like a slingshot. No delay and feels like the thing explodes as soon as your foot touched the throttle. That feel of instant & the ferocious sense of acceleration is an absolute rush. Now with the 812 powerplant I expect the same if not more of that sensation. Again sitting at 40 or so miles and 3000 odd rpm I smash the throttle and that same sense of urgency I did not feel until the revs picked up a little higher. Then it was insane fast. But not the instant sling shot feel. That has left me perplexed. Thinking about it now and would love to hear opinions of others on this exact point. I think the issue is that with so much more power, smashing the throttle down brings the electronics into play at a much higher state than in the 458 which dulls down the initial take off sensation. That's all I can put it down to. Because I imagine a 6.5l V12 monster is not going to be less punchy anywhere in the rev range than a 4.5l V8. I really love that mid range punch / sense of urgency off the 458 and its one of the biggest attractions of the 458. I don't want to loose that. Was I just driving the 812 wrong? The dealer was of the opinion that you just need more time in the 812 to really understand it and work it out. Its a different beast.

    Overall its obviously a superior car. Its more modern with newer better tech. Its much faster. But its different. It gains so many things over the 458 but it also looses a few things. But those few things that it does loose from the 458 are so important to me. Maybe I am looking at it the wrong way and what I am expecting is not realistic. I was expecting a 458 in a different body style, with all the modern updates and a 800hp V12. And I did get glimpses of the 458 when I was driving the 812 but not as much as I was hoping for. Can I have all the brilliant aspect of the 458 added to all the brilliance of the 812 in one car? Maybe that's what I was hoping for, which is pretty silly.

    Two brilliant cars offering some similarities but also many differences. And now I see why a few of you have said you decided to keep both. Unfortunately that's not something I can do. What we finished specking up has a price tag of $852k this is in Australia. For me that is a huge number and not something up until now I thought I would ever be willing to spend on a car. So it cant just be brilliant. It has to blow me away. It has to emotionally grab me and say I have to have this thing. I cant say after that one drive it did all that. Maybe I need a second drive, which is what the dealer suggested. Though I did not need a second drive when I first drove the 458. I knew she was the one from the first press of the throttle. And maybe because the 458 was my first drive and owner ship of an exotic, I am now biased. But I don't think so. Because after 4 years every time I drive it, which is not very often I still get that feeling that I did when I first drove it.

    Apologize for the long rant but I am seriously conflicted and confused. I really want to love the 812 as much and more than the 458. I have mentally overcome the financial commitment and also think that plays a role in how I'm feeling. Being such a big $$$ commitment, maybe I am expecting a lot more and it to be all the brilliant parts of both cars. But is that a such a silly expectation when spending so much?

    Please help. Any thoughts opinions would be so helpful in giving me some direction on this decision.
     
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  25. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 10, 2011
    257
    California
    Big A it is very smart of you that you took this long of a test drive for yourself.

    On the 812, I find the power to be very immediate assuming I am up above 4K revs. So I have to shift down a gear. Because of the engine design and it is naturally aspirated, it won’t have massive torque from the beginning. I find the 458 similar actually. But I do understand exactly what you experienced.

    My opinion is trust your gut and go for what you love. Trying to convince yourself rationally will be an exercise in futility (IMO).

    A way to answer the question is: if you could only drive one car for a brilliant drive that day and every day for the rest of your life, what car would make you feel happy?

    Also, think about other decisions you have made in your life that have been great in their outcomes. How have you made the decision? Did you start with how you felt? Or how you thought you should ?

    Hope that helps. Let us know what you do.
     
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