Looking at my first Ferrari... Advice?

Hey guys

I'm thinking hard about buying a 348TS, and wanted some advice on what to look for when inspecting... Any particular noises to listen for, common problems to look out for, or any advice you guys can give?

I'm not a "mechanic" but I'm not afraid to change oil or brake pads, etc. Is this enough knowledge to make this kind of decision or commitment?

I was thinking, this might be a lot of fun to drive to work in during the warn months and dry days... The odd afternoon drive in the summer, etc. is this an appropriate use of what I've always considered an awesome car??

Appreciate any guidance, advice, or suggestions!!

 

There is no 355TS

You really do need to spend a lot of time reading some of the threads here - there's a huge amount of good advice - start with the sticky sections at the top

 

Welcome to F-chat.

I'd suggest you use the search function and pick around at what's been posted about these cars. But some people get excited about such suggestions

 

+355

sjd

 

Correct. I meant 348 not 355. That was a type-o. Sorry guys. I have edited my post so I don't confuse anyone else.

I have searched and read. My ask was more about trying to find out if there might be any prevalent/serious problems/signs or issues to watch out for. I didn't see anything other than the obvious signs of fluid leaks and wear. Is there more to it, or something in particular I should search for in the forum? Thanks for your help and patience.

 

Just the main things that first pop into my mind.

1) 30K Service Recently Done (includes replacement of hoses, old pumps)
2) Exhaust Headers replaced/updated
3) Valve Guides Updated

Rest depends very much on the context of how the seller kept up the car...really too many variables for a 'quick and easy' answer, hence the responses here.

 

my348.com has a number of good areas to check. However, do not skip a PPI and engine comp/leakdown check.

Some general notes:
- noise from gearbox, also inspect ring nut stakes via side covers
- corrosion in the engine cradle rails
- cracking of rear bodywork where buttress joins quarter panel
- leaking fluid from clutch pumpkin
- sticky trim pieces
- delaminating windshield or rear gla$$
- status of replacement on the timing drive sprocket inner/outer bearings (and update of inner bearing from roller to ball bearing) as well as tensioner pads for that chain and the oil pump.

Personally, I'd rather take a car needing a major and do it all than take a car with a 'fresh' major for the purpose of a sale... I'd be worried of cut corners as far as some of the 'while you're in theres' go.

 

And there is the rear bearing on the driven shaft for the cam belt system. If it has not been upgraded to the newer bearing you will be buying a time bomb. No need to ask me how I know. Use the search function to read up on these failures.

 

that's a new one to me, chas.

sjd

 

This is excellent advice fellas. Very much appreciated.

So I'm clear, we're looking at an engine out service every 30,000 miles? The purpose is to inspect and resolve whatever is found, including what was noted above. Is that accurate?

 

There's a time component to the interval as well, since 20-some odd years on, a good portion of these cars have not yet seen 30k mi.

General rule of thumb seems to be 5 years. Some owners are earlier at 3, some do 7. Some push 10. It all depends on your wallet, the scope of work in the last service(s), and tolerance for risk in the preventive maintenance sense.

 

Duly noted. The car is a 1990, and has 80,000 km, or about 50,000 mi. I'm guessing it's had only 1 engine out service. I'll know more after I see it in a few days.

Now I need to figure out who I can get with in my area (Kitchener, Ontario) that can be trusted to do the work needed....

 

Generally, most Ferraris are pretty well taken care of. I think you can visually tell which ones are beat up and neglected, avoid those. To me, a PPI is a waste of money. You can spend $250 towing the car to and fro, and another $400 for a mechanic to tell you what you could mostly see on your own and feel with a test drive. Look at the car with a critical eye, and ask the owner to leave it cold for you to see how it starts from that state. Take a decent 30 minute test drive with the radio off, and the A/C both on and off, with the windows up and down, and listen for odd noises or feelings when accelerating, turning both ways, and braking.

These cars are approaching 30 years old, so the bushings and things are getting crusty by now. It is not going to feel like a new car most likely, but should sound healthy and feel well connected to all controls. for the 348, I would read the website www.the348.com and follow the lead there. For my experience, most problems are electrical, and mostly with the A/C unit. Slow windows, and crappy switches are normal, but can be remedied with some wiring or new switches. Crappy plastic vents can be refinished and replaced internals with cheap Fiat parts. Overall, look for good caretaking history at a good mechanic or shop. A stack of receipts for various items that runs around $3k per year is a sweet spot. Shows they took care of various items, but not repeated repairs on something expensive, which I would avoid.

Good luck, and enjoy the drive!


BT

 

Mostly the engine out service is for replacing the timing belt and tensioners at a 5 year interval (Ferrari pushes 3 years). The other stuff (valve clearance, water pump, etc..) should be able to go longer (maybe 10 years or more) or 30k miles without much issue.

You just don't want the tensioner to stick and have the timing belt jump a tooth which would damage the valves and be a really expensive repair.

One item to consider is that the later cars have a plastic cam belt cover that by now is pretty brittle from what I have read. The early cars have an aluminum cover.

BT

BT

 

Great choice of car; having just bought one recently myself!!!

Re advice as everybody has said above. I would put my thoughts in two camps 1) mechanical and 2) cosmetic. Depending on what you are happy to a) do and b) live with will guide you on these. For me, my car needs to be 100% mechanical, and about 80% cosmetic as I know I'll chip/ding the door or something myself.

Points from my experience would be:
- rusting brackets on the engine frame longitudinals. Not a big deal, but something else to fix!
- old tyres. check the date stamps. Anything near or over 10 years, you will want new rubber;
- suspension spring bird cages/cups. Both of mine on the rear were cracked, one obviously so, the other needed a close eye. not expensive to fix itself, e.g £40 from Hill Engineering, but by the time you do both sides and do the others bit...£500!
- door locks. common issue to fail mechanically, probably in the stickies on this site
- sub standard paint re-sprays, my front bumper really needs to be done again to bring it up to the standard of the rest of the car as do the mirrors.


At that age, 1990, if they haven't been done, the suspension bushes will be coming up for replacement. No more difficult than any other car, and you can cost the parts online so you know what you are letting yourself in for. Note the a/c is a common problem. Wont blow cold like a new car, think asthmatic Italian, but still needs to blow cold.


As others have said, I would be keener on one that needs a major service rather than one that has just been done for the sale. I have a list of about 6 things that I have done/about to do on mine that weren't done and should really have been done at the last major. Basically they weren't done as they gy wanted the stamp in the book to sell the car! (two small oil weeps, spark plugs weren't changed, transmission fluid wasn't changed, botched oil pipe connector). I'm always shocked at the service cost you guy in North America pay compared to us in the UK, but then the cars are cheaper to buy over there!

As to decent mechanic, I'd post the same question in the Canadian thread on this site; somebody will advise, and you are in the right part of Ont. to find mechanics, or even pop over the boarder.

Lots of advice and support on forums like these and some excellent threads of full restorations kicking about, so most anything you find, somebody will have dealt with it before.

Some will say budget circa 5K to get the car right. This is probably not far off, but do man maths on it!!!! They are great cars, and I certainly don't need an excuse to get it out of the garage! Just remember, these are 20-25 year old cars, so no air bags, no power steering etc etc, but all the more enjoyable for it!

Good luck and enjoy!

 

I have to reply to your post about getting a 348. They are wonderful cars and if taken care of will give you years of thrilling enjoyment. But They are a ***** to park. They dont have any assisted steering and are really tough to turn the wheel when you are parking. Once you get moving at all it is ok. When you are driving the steering is fabulous. I have had mine for 5 years and the only regret I have is that I waited so long to get it.

Try to get a good one and go for it.

 

These responses and details are phenomenal. Very much appreciated!!

I intend to report back after my test on Friday.

 

Well....

I went to see it today. Here's a breakdown of what I found out.

Visual inspection revealed a few things. Seal on targa top was in good condition, and the front hood seal looked almost new - then I noticed the leather strap inside that holds down the leather bag was moldy - then I realized it smelled pretty moldy in there. The interior was worn, and the seatbelts were in pretty rough condition. They didn't really want to retract back, and needed a fair bit of coaxing. The windows moved slowly, and the passenger window took even longer to close. the window switch plates (the parts the switches fit into) was a bit loose on both the driver and passenger doors. I wonder if they were replaced at one point. The car was definitely detailed to make it look good, but there was still some scuffs and marks on the leather. BTW - tan leather with red carpet not my favorite. I may want to replace the carpet to match the leather. Alpine radio with six disc changer took me back to my teens. Someone installed an amp - located in the front storage compartment (the place that smelt like Degobah). The radio will definitely need to be updated. No signs of delamination on the rear window, and a few interior pieces were a tad sticky, including the door handles. I did notice the passenger door's window seal (outside, left side where the glass comes down into the door) didn't look that old, but it had come away from the door in one spot. I wonder if it's bad fitment after someone attempt to address the slow window and failed. I'm thinking that'll need to be an expense to resolve.

As for the AC, it was better than an "asthmatic Italian" (don't hate me for quoting another member, who clearly has a wicked sense of humor) and seemed to work ok. Not the hottest day, but I think it was blowing cold. Power mirrors moved fine, and the seats did what they were supposed to do.

As for the test drive, I'm pretty sure we started a cold engine. took about 4 cranks and it fired up. Oh, service records indicate Tubi Exhaust was installed in 2001 - and I just noticed on that bill that the left door hinge was replaced too.

On the service history - looks like it's had 2 belt services, and much of the service history is from a Ferrari dealer in Florida. It looks like the car has lived in a warm climate until the early 2000's. Some dent repairs in the service history, which indicates to me that the owner who had this in the late 90's & early 2000's cared enough to keep it in good condition. For example, I see the alternator was replaced n '99 along with the water pump. Rotors also done in that service. Funny that the service history starts in 1999, so no idea what, if anything, was done prior. I can only assume nothing was done - absent of proof, right? There were several oil changes in the records, too - going up to 2005, after which I see a couple of bills for things like oil and seals, as well as a clutch disc - but no labor on those, so I'll assume it was DIY serviced from then until now.

The test drive didn't reveal any obvious sounds or whirring. Acceleration was uneventful (ie no crash) and deceleration seemed smooth. Shifting up and down the gears wasn't very difficult, but clearly required a bit more precise hand movement than my current car. I didn't hear much rattling or feel anything out of the ordinary when cornering. The ride didn't feel as hard as I expected, but I could certainly feel the road. No power steering took me back in time. The steering felt responsive. Getting used to 1st gear being bottom-left will be a bit tricky, methinks.

Inspection of the engine bay didn't reveal any signs of rust, corrosion, or leaks. Admittedly, I really wanted to get a decent look underneath, but they didn't have a lift free. He offered for me to come back and spend more time examining it. I'd be surprised and disappointed if I found any corrosion. I didn't get a chance to inspect any of the suspension, obviously. The tires were in good condition, and probably have a couple of summers left on them.

The one thing I DIDN'T see in any of the service invoices was spark plugs. The thing has almost 30,000 miles (I originally thought it was km's - as noted above) and 27 years old, and no spark plugs replaced? Is it just me, or...?

One last thing - he said they did the belt service recently in order to sell it. I know, I know. Anyway, I asked for a DETAILED break-down of exactly what was replaced, and what was inspected and determined "OK, but optional to replace". I'm going to go through that with a fine-tooth comb when I get it (he's to email me).

So here we are. I'll let you all know what I see when I get a good look underneath - hopefully later next week or early the following week. Until then, thanks to everyone who contributed their advice & experience - it really helped me fill out a decent checklist, and also prep me for what to expect and what to focus on. You guys are awesome (the car was sorta fun to drive, too).

Cheers,
R.

 

"The one thing I DIDN'T see in any of the service invoices was spark plugs. The thing has almost 30,000 miles (I originally thought it was km's - as noted above) and 27 years old, and no spark plugs replaced? Is it just me, or...?"

Spark plugs wear/deteriorate from use not age. Under 30,000 miles is not that much use. Don't know if they're supposed to be changed at every major but it would be a bit wasteful at low mileage.

 

The primary objective is to replace the timing belt, tensioner, bearing, seals, to name a few....then look for whatever else needs attention and repair/replace as needed

 

I'm on board with this. When I bought my 355, I was assured it had its major. But it kept gnawing at me.

 

+1 I am amazed at the number of people that feel the need to have that service completed prior to purchase. I would much rather orchestrate that event myself.

The seller needs that "major" service done as cheaply as possible. Scary....

 

I had my cambelt done at purchase but it was done by the place that had serviced it for about 8-9 years or more. They knew the car very well.

 

I don't know the history on my car. There was "some talk" of a service sometime in the last 5 to 10 years. Don't know what kind of service. At first, I was afraid to drive the car until I had the belts/tensioners done. But the more I drive it, the less I care. I'm starting to I think in terms of miles instead of years. Car only has 25,000, maybe I'll service it when it hits 30K. I'm on track to putting 500 miles a year on it. So, next service in 10 years?

 

It was the subject of a service bulletin back in the day. I thought there was a picture of it on this web site quite a few years back.