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Looking into a 328 GTS.

Discussion in '308/328' started by Il Co-Pilota, Dec 18, 2021.

  1. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran
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    Hi all

    Quick question as I'm considering adding a 1987 328 GTS Euro spec. Car I'm looking at is in immaculate condition, was told by those doing the PPI that it is one of the nicest 328's they have seen in years. No rust, full history, everything verified and matches. Anyhoo, that's not really what I'm here for. I'm just tryjng to learn some ins and outs of the 328 GTS.

    What are people doing for tyres these days? I see that several good quality options are there, such as Michelin Pilot Sport 4 etc. But are these "too good" for the old school chassis? Would shoes with less grip suit the car better? What about size? Anyone doing something alternative on the OE wheels?

    Any advice about the roof? Anything to be aware of in regards to leaks or rattles? Should the roof seal be treated with some silicone a few times per year etc. to avoid rattles, leaks or wind noise.

    Are there any benefits to the non-ABS cars from a handling and driving point of view?

    Anyone running Antigravity batteries to save weight? If so, what group size fits the 328 GTS?

    Will a full Tubi exhaust save weight? Car is of course a non-cat car from the factory.

    Anything else worth noting when living with a 328?

    And lastly, can anybody tell me which Rosso Corsa Glasurit paint was used? Is it the FER300/6 or something newer? The 300/6 stands out jn my mind as one of the best Rosso Corsa colours Ferrari ever used.

    Thanks guys. Any good-to-know stuff and advice is very welcome

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  3. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    Any tires made today in the correct size and type are better than the tires that were available when the car was made so that, in itself, is not an issue. It will depend on what brand of tire you want on the car for whatever reason.

    Never noticed any rattles in my 328 with the top off. With the top on there are some squeaks/rattles on rough/washboard surfaces. Some silicone grease will eliminate it but be sure to apply and then wipe the excess off. Otherwise it can be messy!

    Ferrari claimed that the suspension change that accommodated ABS also improved some aspect of handling. I can't remember what that was and I don't know if that was "marketspeak." I'm sure someone here does.

    Dont know about Antigrav batteries - I have a Costco in my 328! I run Shorai LiFe bats in my motorcycles and love them but never looked into them for a car..

    Tubi will be considerably lighter than the OEM muffler. Only thing I would suggest...be sure you are comfortable with the noise level of the Tubi (or any aftermarket "performance" exhaust. Something that sounds really cool in a 20 minute ride to the Sunday coffee klatch can become intolerable if you are in the car for hours at a time. I have driven my '89 328 across country three times and found the STOCK exhaust to be annoying for extended periods - wore earplugs. ;)

    Don't know anything about the paint.

    Obviously, normal, routine maintenance is important; lots of info on that stuff here. My 328 has been essentially bulletproof - more so than my wife's last two MBs or the Porsche 911 I purchased new/drove for 6 years. It had the engine replaced twice during the warranty period. The transmission needed replacement about 6 months out of warranty.:eek:

    Only thing I can think to add as far as "328 things to be aware of" is...don't expect much from the air conditioner!:D
     
  4. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    That's only a claim: it was done to fit the ABS and no more. Actually is the Mondial 3.2 front suspension. Check my book, "Ferrari - the turbo eight cylinders (1982-1989)" in the Dario Benuzzi interview: he preferred the old one.

    Take the "standard noise" model and no problem also on very long runs.

    Ciao


    Please keep the OEM rims. Take the tires you want, better if not with too much grip.

    No problem there: a bit of rattle on bad roads and no more. Zero leaks.


    I prefer the not ABS cars, but that's just an opinion. What is 100% sure is the ABS ones are not better, except than having the ABS (that sometimes can help a lot).


    300/9 and 300/12

    There is almost no difference with the 300/6: I had both in the same garage and they looked exactly the same.

    Ciao
     
  5. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    I'm not sure I buy into the "new tires are too sticky for the chassis" belief. Does the car even make enough power for such a problem to manifest?
     
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  6. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran
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    Thanks guys, a lot of great info.

    I will definitely keep the original wheels. Really not interested in aftermarket stuff. Was more just wondering if people are running a 2225/50R16 and 245/45R16 combo as opposed to stock size?

    My thoughts on too much grip was not so much in relation to power. More thinking whether or not it will overpower the chassis in the twisties.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  8. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula 3
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    I have 9 inch rims on the back with 17s, and Contis extreme contact patch rubber , and 8 inch in the front, 255s in the back and 245 s in the front, my car feels , for what it is , a1989 Ferrari, like it will rip up chunks of asphalt when ripping around a corner, and thats with stock suspension. Its not a GT3, but like I said, if we were back in 1989, It would be considered extreme, same as a GT3 today. I use the example of the Porsche because they are the only high end sports car manufacturer that still builds a true drivers car, which the 328 has always been. I say buy it, you will love it !~ You dont need a lot of power to put the 328 into a balanced 4 wheel slide going around a corner, thats for sure .By the way, my car has 104,000 miles, and still runs like it did with 20 k , I bought the car with 20 k .

    Thank you
     
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  9. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Formula Junior
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    Unless you are going to drive 9-10/10 on a track, stickier tires aren't going to stress the suspension enough to present any problem. Stickier is better 99.9999% of the time.

    On the suspension change, Keith Bluemel writes in his book "Original Ferrari V8", considered by most to be the 308/328 bible:

    "in mid-1988 for European 328s and late-1988 for US 328s, the suspension geometry was changed to provide anti-dive and zero offset, concurrently with the preparation to accept the optional - but later standard - ABS braking system".

    So I disagree with @Albert-LP 's contention that the suspension geometry was changed only to accomodate ABS. I have no experience with non-ABS 328s so I can't say whether you would notice any difference between an 87 or an 89 at reasonable road speeds, but anti-dive does improve handling, at least in theory. Again, during normal use it may or may not matter to you.
     
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  10. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    He might be correct but Keith also says my 89 328 has a hydraulic clutch! ;)
     
  11. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula 3
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    I would like to point out, that the 3x8 series were such a good design, and built so well, that they are able to keep up with todays tire technology , that says a lot about these cars. And I would also like to say that with 100,000 miles, the biggest difference in the way the car handled , was felt more when I changed the motor mounts, the suspension was working so well at the 100 K mark, I could not truly say that when I rebuilt the suspension, that it was a major improvement in the way my car handled, thats how good these cars are !! The 328 put simply, is a pure driving machine, and it becomes an extension of you , when your behind the wheel . I would add to my cars with a GT3 or 488, but I will never give up my 328 in order to do so.

    Thank you
     
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  13. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #10 Albert-LP, Dec 19, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
    Maybe Keith Bluemel sometime can only copy a commercial statement without investigating too much facts: The antidive geometry was mandatory to have the ABS working well, as it the car dived too much under braking the ABS would have disengaged brakes to avoid the rear wheels lockup. The Mondial 3.2 already fitted ABS and so they put on the 328 the same antidive front suspension. Maybe could help you to read what tells Dario Benuzzi, Ferrari chief test driver of the time, about that Mondial derived front suspension with antidive.

    I think that Dario Benuzzi knows a bit more than many others about 328 front suspension.

    Ciao
     
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  14. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Formula Junior
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    I understand what you mean now. That makes sense, thanks.
     
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  15. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Thank you. On my book you can learn what was the opinion of Dario Benuzzi about the new suspension that fitted 88 and 89 cars: basically he liked more the old one. There are many errors about 308 story on the books, as several writers only copied what Ferrari brochures told. The 308 vetroresina 255 hp and 200 kg less weight than the steel ones are among these stupid things written by who didn't care about finding reality. All the 308 GTB had 229 HP DIN (from the first one to the last one) and the weight difference are no more than 30 kg. The same happens with this 88-89 suspension: better only because it fits the ABS requirements, worse in everything else.
    Facts.

    Ciao
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Better tires at the very least add stopping power. Cannot see how that is ever bad. I am friends with Kieth but his 308/328 book isn't very good and hardly the Bible.

    Spending a couple of hundred dollars for a lousy battery that weighs a few pounds less in a 3200 lb car?
     
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  17. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran
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    I have an Antigravity in both my Lusso and my GT4, and am very pleased with them. Thing for me is just as much a question of having something that will never lack power and a built in booster function. Yes it's a 3200 lbs car, but considering the nature of the car and the power, I'd guess that every little bit helps. I would also like to point out that it's not a few pounds you save, but over 25 if not 30. Which group size battery does the 328 use?

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  18. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Everyone can do what he wants with his car, of course. This said, a Litium battery on a 308 is not period correct item and could even modify the weight balance on the car and at my eyes it's like fitting it with new carbon fiber rims: better than the orginals, but why?

    My tip is to put on a 308 a standard 60Ah Pb battery, very cheap and very effective: there are many areas where you can spend money in a better way in a 40+ years old car.

    Ciao
     
  19. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Formula Junior
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    I believe the 328 has a slight rearward weight bias, so if you want to save weight I don't think the front end is the right place.

    Gasoline weighs 6 lbs per gallon, and the tank holds 18.5 gallons, so you're lugging around 111 lbs. of fuel when the tank is full. If you want to save 25 lbs, just fill your tank 3/4 full. That won't cost you a dime, and the weight saving is in a better location than the battery compartment.

    I see a lot of guys go to drastic measures to remove 10 lbs from their cars by removing stuff, and then drive around with a set of golf clubs in the trunk and a 40 lb. dog in the passenger seat.

    I doubt very seriously that anyone here could tell the difference if 100 lbs. were suddently removed from their car. Think about it - can you tell by how the car feels when the gas tank is near empty vs. full? I can't, even with my years of track driving going like a bat out of hell. And even if you can, is the difference enough to matter?
     
  20. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula 3
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    The weight bias is 60/40 at best. (rear/front} With that being said, the 3x8s handle fantastic for their era and for today . The better solution for a better handling car, are 17s with 9 s in the rear and 8s in the front, although my other set of 17s are 7.5 inch wide, and with P ZEROS, handles incredibly !! The car was designed in an almost perfect way, back in the 70s and 80s, and N. Lauda had significant input in the 3x8 s build. You can drive these cars beyond the edge of tire adhesion and bring them back time after time, I would imagine that the fun factor would be really hard to equal, even with todays offerings, as far as road driving is concerned. When it comes to track work, they are under powered .

    Thank you
     
  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Those batteries are very charging voltage sensitive. Too much voltage kills them. Using one with a 35 year old Bosch charging system is a questionable idea.

    I have very few issues with cars running plain old lead acid batteries. Cannot say that about any of the others.
     
  22. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    Dario Benuzzi's opinion on which is the better suspension should be tempered by his driving ability, compared to the ability of most Ferrari drivers.

    Let's be honest here: Dario Benuzzi is a Ferrari driving God, who I'd say with quite a bit of confidence, has racked up more hours driving road going Ferrari's over the years, than any other person on this planet, whereas 99.5% (completely made up percentage ;)) of Ferrari drivers are mere mortal drivers, who might be pretty good at driving, but not in Benuzzi's league.

    That means Benuzzi will notice minor things about a Ferrari's handling, steering or performance, that the most Ferrari drivers wouldn't.

    Stick most drivers in an early and late 328, to compare them back to back, and I'd be surprised if they genuinely noticed any difference between the two suspensions.

    Dario Benuzzi may well prefer the older suspension, but he's never criticised the newer suspension setup, and as demonstrated by his views on the 348, if he thought there was an issue, he would have made it known, one way or another.
     
  23. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    I understand your point and yes I share with you the opinion that most won't notice any difference. This said, I wanted only to point out this: the new 1988 supension is not better, only different due to ABS requirements. And then, this said again, I had both in the garage and I preferred the old one: personal taste, of course.

    About the 348 supension, I know the all story and it's much different than what you can read (or hear) everywhere, but I didn't write it, I erased it from "Ferrari by Schedoni" chapter about Giuseppe Montorsi (Ferrari, Bugatti and Maserati test driver) who starts at page 103 of "Ferrari by Schedoni" english edition book. I erased it as a tribute and respect to the glorious Dario Benuzzi and Ferrari story.

    Everyone can do a mistake: writing books here in Italy allows you to speak with the ones who partecipaded into car's creation and development, so you can hear several different sources and know a bit better what really happened.

    I learned that story not always is how you thought it was nor always as a single source told before.

    So, coming back to the suspension: I prefer the old one, but the new one can fit the ABS so it has a great safety advantage.

    Ciao
     
  24. bertrand328

    bertrand328 Formula 3

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  25. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    "I learned that story not always is how you thought it was nor always as a single source told before'

    As is true in virtually every story, experience, ...or memory! ;)
     
  26. Kent Dellenbusch

    Kent Dellenbusch Formula Junior
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    I agree with Mike 996. I think Mike's wife needs to get a 328, just different color.
     
  27. Kent Dellenbusch

    Kent Dellenbusch Formula Junior
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    Well said on all points.
     
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  28. Sigmacars

    Sigmacars Formula Junior
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    I agree 100% I see guys that weigh 220lb and the talk about what changes the made
    To save weight I just tell them go to the gym and you save your self some money
     
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