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Looking to buy my first Ferrari, Lusso T

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by JohnnyTT, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. JohnnyTT

    JohnnyTT Rookie

    Aug 12, 2012
    8
    Hello all,

    As mentioned, looking to buy my first Ferrari. It's time to move on from porsche, and I'm excited.

    For the price range that fits me right now getting a Lusso T gets me a perfect color combination and spec list that is exactly what I want....and also still in warranty.

    To get a V12, I have to go out of my price range to get close to what I want.


    My question is, will I be disappointed with a T? I've driven the V12 and loved it. I've never driven the T. But I have driven a PortoFino, which wasn't for me, but the engine felt and sounded good.

    To the T owners out there, are you satisfied?. Happy? Exstactic?


    Thanks all in advance.


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  3. Pooldik

    Pooldik Rookie

    Nov 21, 2020
    13
    Full Name:
    Robert Hunka
    Hey there, not sure about the T but I’m an FF owner for a few months now and I love the car. Supposedly, from talking with a few service guys, and other Rari owners, the 12cyl is much more desirable than the 8cyl.


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  4. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    514
    The Netherlands
    Welcome to the forum.

    Plenty of people have chosen the T (do a search on it); but in doing so, they have given up one of the best engines out there and one of the best reasons for owning a Lusso in the first place.

    If budget is an issue, get an FF.
     
    Jas likes this.
  5. JohnnyTT

    JohnnyTT Rookie

    Aug 12, 2012
    8
    Answers like this don't make it easy! I'd prefer waiting for a v12 lusso that getting an FF.

    As I posted this, I'm saying to myself...get the T, and in 6-12 when more funds free up....wait for that perfect V12 to pop up.

    The T I'm looking at is 1 owner and 1500 miles. My price would be 40% below original. So I'd be in a good place from a depreciation perspective.


    JohnnyTT
     
  6. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    5,617
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Where do you live? Do you need AWD?
     
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  8. JohnnyTT

    JohnnyTT Rookie

    Aug 12, 2012
    8
    Dont need it. Have other cars for snow.

    Appreciate the feedback so far.


    JohnnyTT
     
  9. KY _Soldier

    KY _Soldier Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 13, 2008
    493
    Louisville KY
    Full Name:
    Eric Rahman
    I asked my SA the same questions. He said there are TONS of T inventory. Not as much V12. The V8 is fine if you don't need AWD in a northern climate. BUT reselling T's is tough as the demand for them is low due to the polarizing styling. If you just want something for a while the T is probably plenty of car, but expect to take a bath resale wise.
     
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  10. Anzir

    Anzir F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 29, 2004
    4,167
    Orlando, FL
    Looking at the online inventory there are some super reasonable v12s available. FoW has one at $189k.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
     
  11. JohnnyTT

    JohnnyTT Rookie

    Aug 12, 2012
    8
    Thanks for looking. I check regularly. But colors and options are obviously important.

    There are some ugly cars out there!


    JohnnyTT
     
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  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2019
    4,048
    Copenhagen
    Full Name:
    A.B
    I have a V12 and have driven a T a number of times. It completely turns me off. The tempramental nature and smoothness is such a big part of that car. It is not because I don't like a turbo, I prefer my 488 to the 458. But with the Lusso T I feel that you get less of everything. Something else I found to be a massive difference is the interior sound. When the V12 settles down, it becomes super smooth and quiet. The T retains a bit of an odd drone that is not very nice.

    Will you be disapointed? I couldn't tell you. I know I would.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  14. JohnnyTT

    JohnnyTT Rookie

    Aug 12, 2012
    8
    Thanks for your honesty.


    JohnnyTT
     
  15. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 26, 2013
    2,102
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Ahh, I got tired of fighting the T corner on a V12 forum, but for me the T is more fun than the V12, as in driving/handling, rather than making a noise (RWD/4 wheel steer = super sweet handling). Think of it more as a V8 sports car with extra space. The engine is far more suited to the real world. A great everyday car.
    So yes, Johnny very happy indeed.
    PM me if you want.

    If your desire a V12 well my experience suggests you put it the front of a RWD 2 seat Berlinetta, an F12 would be a good start.
     
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  16. lamborarri

    lamborarri Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 15, 2015
    436
    I had V12 but I loved my friend's T. I didn't think when I bought my V12, I thought it was the one for me. Later I got the chance to drive my buddy's T, I totally in love with it. It's better to drive, easier to turn, etc. It also depends on if you need the AWD or not I guess. In my heart, I want the V12. But my brain tells me to get the T lol.
     
  17. hagen111

    hagen111 Karting

    Feb 25, 2006
    105
    V12 feels lumpy compared to V8 T. If I would get Lusso (own FF) I would 100% opt for the V8 T...its a briljant machine...the looks of a V12 Ferrari but lighter and better engine to live with on daily basis, nicer steering and to be had at much lower price point. I consider it to be te best new practical Ferrari to be had in todays market.
     
  18. hagen111

    hagen111 Karting

    Feb 25, 2006
    105
    But if you do long stints at high speed on the motorway (back and forth to e.g. vacation house at Cote D'azure)...the V12 is unbeatable...it goes and goes...
     
  19. ScottS

    ScottS Formula 3
    Owner

    Mar 2, 2004
    1,545
    Winter Park
    Full Name:
    Scott S
    So true. Heresy to say but I seriously considered a T from my FF. Prices were better and I took an extended test drive experience. I don’t need awd in Florida and the nature of the rwd twin turbo was different. Y’all are so much more articulate about why it’s different but mostly one could read the opinions as not a 12 as opposed to not good.


    No one brought up clark’s on so I will :

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-clarkson-review-ferrari-gtc4lusso-t-5qtgxtpw2


    perhaps unsurprisingly Clarkson fell for the Ferrari GTC4Lusso T. So much so, in fact, that he declared he “really would love to own this car.”


    So there are fans. I would have been happy with the T. But I went with the 12, mostly for value- of course I would sell it now for anything. But the T felt more like a smaller car in its rear wheel driven nature.

    You like it? Buy one


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  20. JohnnyTT

    JohnnyTT Rookie

    Aug 12, 2012
    8
    To all the responses, thank you very much. The "feeling" I'm getting for both sides of the coin is...

    Those who liked the T feel is an all around awesome car that drives great, sounds good, is very agile, and just a pleasure to drive all the time.

    Those who say get the V12... It's so much more emotional and impactful. While maybe a bit less agile than the T, it's still a great driver.

    I'm guessing the T is a bit more similar to the 20 Panamera GTS I just got rid of. It's a great driver, awesome car, but was lacking the serious smile factor when in it. I honestly enjoyed looking at it more than diving it.

    Lastly, I've got a couple of good review videos tee'd up for my wife to listen too. Let's see if one pulls her in.


    Thank you again.


    JohnnyTT
     
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  21. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2019
    4,048
    Copenhagen
    Full Name:
    A.B
    The most obvious thing is that it is very personal. I personally don't find the added weight of the V12 to make a big difference. At the end of the day we are talking 50 kg that is mostly placed low and between the axles. I have plenty of time with both, and I actually was seriously considering the T before the V12, because I had an idea that it would be that much more agile. After experience them both, I ended up realizing that they drove very similar. I can definitely not recognize that the V12 should feel "lumpy" compared to the T. To me calling the V12 lumpy, I just don't understand that at all.

    I will like to address one other thing, and that is in regard to how we perceive the V12 vs. T and how they generally drive. One thing I have found is that there's a lack of consistency. The very first V12 Lusso I drove for instance, really put me off quite a bit. On the flip side, I've driven others that are very agile and nice. Same for the few T's I've driven - different from car to car. I guess my point is that there might be the usual Ferrari inconsistency in play sometimes. By that I refer to the issues that our cars have a tendency to leave the factory with alignments that are all over the place. My car was actually pretty good, but like with my 488 for instance, I've seen Lusso's and FF's that are all over the place. So if one finds another car to be driving a lot better, it might also be worth taking the car to an alignment and see if everything is as it should be. Just some food for thought.

    Living with? I can't see how the V12 is less easy to live with. It starts and does all you expect from it. -It drives incredibly smooth, shift smooth etc. Not sure how it can be called less easy to live with than the V8. There's one difference of course, and that's fuel economy.

    I think it's very much down to try both and see what you like.
     
  22. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    514
    The Netherlands
    I don’t understand the oft repeated claims about the T being more nimble than the V12 given that the V12 is closer to 50:50 weight distribution (48:52) compared to the T (46:54).
    As for the engine smoothness, a V12 (along with the straight 6) is the most naturally balanced engine configuration - certainly more than the V8. So again, I don’t understand this claim either.
    The only one which stands up to scrutiny is the one about the T being lighter. But if 50kgs (less than a tank of fuel or one adult passenger) is going to make the difference to you on a 1.74 ton car then I would suggest that you shouldn’t be considering a Lusso in the first place.
    All in all, the excuses made to justify the T don’t really make any objective sense. The only way to justify is that you prefer it. Which is the only reason anyone needs.
     
  23. SeattleStew

    SeattleStew Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2020
    257
    Full Name:
    Stew
    No replacement for displacement. V12 forum laugh at inferior cylinder count engine with funny whirly doodads.

    I haven't driven a Lusso T, but the Ferrari V8T cars are quite good. I'm just a big fan of naturally aspirated engines, and love the sound of a V12. If you have driven both, and like them both, go with whichever car spec fits your wants/needs most. Whether that's V12 or V8
     
  24. hagen111

    hagen111 Karting

    Feb 25, 2006
    105
    The dynamics of a car can't be explained by how a car sits on a parking lot. Indeed little different between V12 and V8 T ;-)

    Try the following exercise: take a broom. Pick it up at the end of the stick...and swing left-right-left-right. Now change; holding it from the other end...swing left-right-left-right. Instead of comparing static weight...now someone can feel the difference on where the weight is positioned and the effect when it is moving and has to change direction.

    Now think about the weight distribution once more, and even more...50-50 doesn't say anything...it is important where it is placed.

    Second exercise...try holding a bicycle wheel on one end of the axle...try to steer....now give a big swing so it starts rotation really fast, hold it at the axle and try to steer...now someone can feel the effect of rotating mass on changing direction. It takes force to change the direction of spinning mass.

    It would be interesting to understand the weight of the v12 crank vs the V8 crank...as they have a massive effect on changing direction of a car.
    The 4 wheel drive gear on front of the V12 won't help much either I think.

    There is some logic in this. Correct me if I am wrong.
     
  25. Pis7a2020

    Pis7a2020 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 17, 2019
    552
    I have the T, it’s a great car. The V12 is nice too...I would of done the v12 is it would of been available. However, other than the glorious sound of the V12, the T is fast as hell and is more practical for driving around the family.

    Having said that, I do get my V12 fix with my 812 SF.

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  26. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    514
    The Netherlands
    Except that in your example, holding the broom at one end and then the other is not 50:50 is it?

    50:50 would be balancing the broom at its centre of gravity or centre of rotation. So as a result, it would not matter which end was ‘heavy’ and which was ‘light’. Which is why the V12 is more nimble than the V12, whatever people claim.
     
  27. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2019
    4,048
    Copenhagen
    Full Name:
    A.B
    There's a few things to consider here. Even a flat plane V8 can easily have a crank that weigh the same as a V12 crank. One has counter weights, the other does not. There is of course the added bob weight to keep in mind, but trust me, it will not amount to much. Maybe 3 kg, if that. However, those 3 kg are not rotating, they are reciprocating, thus they have very little gyroscopic effect.
    It is not the weight of the rotating assembly that accounts for those 50 kg, it is the total construction. It should also be taken into account that the configuration of each car matters. If a T has a pano roof and the V12 does not, then all of a sudden the difference is not 50 kg. And the roff adds weight high.
    It is easy to understand your thoughts on the broom example, but oddly enough it is actually in favour of the V12, not the T. In fact, if what Ferrari says is correct, and which is what we judge this on, the T has 27 kg more placed over the back than the V12 but about 77 kg less over the front. While this might look to be a great thing for the T, reality is that it is a function of the rear of the T being heavier and front lighter with it's 46.5/53.5 distribution. As any classic Porsche will know, adding weight to the rear creates a pendulum effect.

    The short of it is that we can argue for and against, and try to do it from a scientific standpoint. But reality is that we know too little, and if one wants to use the weight as a measure of why one is better than the other, one would need to weigh both cars - again, the Ferrari inconsistency is at play here. Wouldn't it be interesting if real world numbers showed the two models to be within 25 kg of one another? Not saying they are, but we know Ferrari weight claims are all over the place.

    The 4RM system should never be confused with an actual 4wd system. The Lusso V12 is very much a rear wheel driven car. It is important to remember that not only is the front and rear not mechanically linked in the traditional sense, but it is also only able to deliver a fraction of the cars power to the front. Put it in CT off and give it a bootful, and those rear tyres become smoke, just like they would in a T. The same will happen in the wet in both Sport and Wet. It is a system that provides an input in certain situations, not a full time system as is found in say an Audi or Porsche. I usually refer to it as front assisted rwd.

    I end up back at where I started, in that to properly compare them, they have to be "the same". Tyres need to be the same. It is not a good comparison if one car is on worn PZero's while the other is on new Michelins. Tyre pressures have to be on point too. Alignment has to be correct.
    All the variables have to be dealt with to make a fair assessment. And lastly, it would not be that difficult to make the car a touch more nimble by changing some simple parameters. Add a few minutes to each front wheels toe, and half a degree of camber, and you end up with a more sensitive and agile car. It does not take much, which is also the reason why a proper baseline should be established when making a direct comparison.

    So many things in play.

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  28. Jlee504

    Jlee504 Karting

    Apr 8, 2017
    53
    All great info. To confirm the T also has rear wheel steering right? It’s not clear but an article or two suggests that it does.
     
    Pis7a2020 likes this.

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