lose wieght and build muscle...in other words get ripped

i think it would be a lot more easy if you just have a pill or something?

john

 

My plastic surgon says he can do that to you for $10,000 and a lot less time. But more pain!!!

 

Ok, this is the thread that I absolutly have to comment on. Having been
weight lifting since I was 13, I think I would know a few things. I'll try
make it simple and two the point.

1: You simply cannot "Add muscle" and "lose fat" at the same time. Your
body doesnt work that way. You body NEEDS sugar to feed the muscles
during intense weightlifting exercise. Been on a low carb diet, and lifting
weights at the same time, is death to muscle mass. Your body will start
to break down muscle (as well as fat) in order to meet your energy requirements.

2: If you pick "Add muscle" these are the general guidelines. Eat 1 gram
protien for every lbs of weight you are. When Im gaining, I generally eat
4-5k calories a day. This means around 3 40g protien shakes. 1 morning,
one right after you work out (30 minute window, IMPORTANT) and 1
as you climb into bed. I would recommend "whey" since its fast acting, and
your body can break down quicker during sleep for recovery. Avoid cardio,
this is just an energy drain and wont do nothing with all the cals you are
eating. Your workouts should be done on a 4 or 5 day split, and be a minimum
of 1 1/2 to 2 hours. I like to workout slowly, and rest alot between my sets.
Change your routine every 6-8 weeks. If you follow this plan for around
6 months, you should add 10-15 lbs of muscle easy. Until you reach your
genetic max that is. Your workouts should be intense enough to leave
every single muscle hurting after the workouts and next few days.

3: If you pick "Loose fat" these are the guidelines. Restrict your diet to
negative 300 - 400 cals below maintinance. Typically most people eat
around 2000 - 2500 cals a day. I keep mine at the 2000 level. Do cardio twice
a day, for a min of 45 minutes. You only really enter your fat burning zone
past the 30 minute point anyway (your body uses sugar in your blood frist, and then starts breaking down fat). Splitting the workout makes it less intense (I know I cant train for 2 hours straight). Do whatever cardio works for you, just get your heart rate over 120 for most of the workout at least. Split your meals into 4 or 5 a day, and you should never be hungry. Just carry
around a spare shake in powder form, when you get hungry drink it. Drink
a shake after each workout as well. Protien after workouts are the best
for your body. Drink lots and lots of water. It keeps your bodys retention
of water under the skin down, and you will look better. You should be
doing a simple weight routine around 3 days a week, no more then 45
minutes.

4: Keep your vitamin content high. Just take the recommend daily values,
this should work fine.

5: Avoid anything that they advertise on TV, or can buy at GNC. Its
all crap, there is no magic bullet. No corti-slim or andro or any of that crap
works. The only usefull thing is protien (shakes and bars). That HGH crap
they sell is useless too. God knows, Ive tried them all.

6: The only thing that will tip you over your genetic max is steriods. Like
the REAL kind that you either have to inject, or take in pill format.
I'll get into this discussion in private if you like, but Im not going to get
into it here. It is dangerous and bad for your body if done incorrectly.

When I started training like this around 5 years ago, I went from 155
at the age of 19 to around 190 (fat, but well built). 190 is my genetic
max. Ive been up to around 210 last year, and have also cut down to
around 165-170 using the cutting diet, from 200. Persistance is key.

Oh yeah, if you can, pickup the "Arnolds encyclopedia of body building".
This is my second bible if you will.

 

Some of the stuff in this thread is bull****. Learn from people who actually know what they are talking about you guys...
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/
Read EVERY article in the Journal, Workout, Nutrition, and Anatomy sections.
The amount of research and medical facts that goes into those articles is simply amazing.

 

All I had to do was quit drinking 47 cans of Coke every day
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

People who have time to sit around and read that crap, have
less time to go work out. Stop ready this stuff, get your ass
in the gym, and lift some weights till you cant walk.

Honestly, Ive been reading tons and tons of this stuff for the
last 6 years, and tried just about everything. Nothing works, other
then a simple forumla. Hey, if you do something different, and it
works for you, MORE POWER TO YOU.

To Gain muscle. Eat more, lift more weights. Do heavy sets, make
sure you have included squats and deadlifts in your routine.

To lose fat. Eat less, do more cardio, and stay away from heavy
weight lifting

Cant do both at once. Pick one, and run with it for 8 weeks. If you
cant do it for 8 weeks straight, dont ***** about not been able to
gain or lose.

The only reason I give people this advice, since it works for me, and
I can prove it.

 

LOL LOL

 

You're right! Workout with no knowledge of proper training techniques and nutrition. People should be in the gym busting their balls until they cant walk...ever again...because they didnt know what they were doing and ****ed themselves up.

Sorry guys, I concede...Obviously Im wrong

My advice is to simply educate yourself; Research! Do things the right way for better results and most importantly, your own health and safety. Thats all! Anyone that argues that point is simply an idiot.

But you did say it yourself, what you do works for you. More power to you It may not work for others though. Bodies are unique, and so are training routines and dietary needs. Simple formulas for everyone's progress just cant and dont exist!

 

Swimming is the easiest way. 30 to 50 laps a day will get you in good shape.

 

Let's really lay it out on the table here.
The truth is, your physique is 80% genetics, 10% nutrition and 10% time spent driving iron. Fact is, if you're not endowed with the genetics to grow, then you're not going to grow , nor develop. Sorry to bust the bubble, but that's a fact. You have to eat and train with tenacity, intensity and consistency, but that only gets you to a basal level of fitness - if you're genetically fit, you'll look better than the next guy in the gym , if you're not, you'll just end up looking better than just about every other avg. guy on the street.
The people that willing fight their genetics, juice. And that is a fact.
The only way to exceed your genetic potential is to shoot steroids, and that's a losing battle any way you cut it.
The truth is: keep it simple. Work out at minimum 3 and at most 6 days a week. Introduce moderate cardio daily, and lift with intensity every time. (Note: this doesn't mean lift 100% of max all the time; form is far more important, as is compounding movements that invoke peripheral and stabliatory muscles into the movement.)
To maintain muscle growth, you need to consume 1 gram protein / kg of body weight. Also, you need to eat quality. If you eat junk, you'll spend all your time working off the junk, not forming muscle.
Keep to a consistent schedule of eating 5-6 light meals throughout the day; this keeps your body's glucose levels up; when you don't store glucose, you don't bloate your adipocites (A word on fat tissue : everyone is born w/ a predetermined quantity of adipocites - it's their size that regulates your body fat %.in other words, if you bloate your adipociets , you get fat and you store fat when you let your glucose levels drop b/c your body believes that its fasting, and is attempting to save itself by storing up energy for the upcoming famine.)
Give your self a treat every now and then, but maintain moderation. I lift 5 days a week, but will have a beer with dinner , or a glass of wine and some ice cream. Let it motivate you to work hard in the gym the next day.
Lastly, give up on the fantasy. Most of us will never look like Arnold, Mike Catz, Dave Draper, Ronnie Coleman, et al. Those guys committed / commit their entire lives to lifting - they didn't work, they lifted. There was, and still is, a lot of juicing going on. I don't know for a fact that they did, but you don't reach those levels of development 100# eau naturale.
Just keep it simple, and remain consistent. If you're anxious about the gym, hire a trainer and get some coaching. Get a workout buddy, or workout with your spouse, but remebmer that if you don't work out with absoloute dedication, you'll never reap the benefits.
-hubert
PS: I own Arnold's book, and the workouts are ridiculous, but it is a good reference.

 

This is true, but I dont agree with the 80% figure. Look at 30-40 years
ago, at the body builders size, shape, and raw MASS, then look for
a picture of ronnie coleman. Look at the MASS of muscle he carries around,
as compared to arnold. You cant tell me Arnold didn't eat right, or train
as hard, or that Ronnie somehow has some magical forumla for eating
that Arnold didnt. Keep in mind, Ronnie was a texas cop, living near
the border of mexico (cheap, easy drugs anyone?).

Now dont tell me genetics and mans DNA has evolved so that they can
get so much bigger, and dont tell me its becuase they eat right. Its mostly
the change in the (1) type of steriods (2) quantity of steriods (3) HGH
(real injectable hgh) and (4) intelligent and consistant use of insulin to
modifiys the bodys chemistry in order to break new barriers to growth.

I would say its more in the range of 40-50% Genetics, and the rest
is hard work, food and drugs. The genetics part plays into have a good
skeletal structure, and good muscle mass, and low fat from the start. Any
additional fat can be handled by a doctor anyway.

Ronnie Coleman pics:
http://www.corpoculto.hpg.ig.com.br/ronnie.html

Last 30 years of bodybuilding competition winners
http://www.extrem-sport.com/bodybuilding.htm

In peticular, notice the "ripped" portion of the chest, where the
viens are standing out, and also the size and width of the quads
and hamstrings.

Well, just my opinion. Everyone feel free to add input here.

 

Hubert and Brendon0:

I think both of you are right. I don't believe that the supplements we can swallow are worth much, except protein and maybe creatine. The people who get really big are likely on the juice(s).

The advice both of you give makes sense to me and its what I do, as best as I can. I have only a vague idea about how much is genetics, but I know a pair of identical twins, one on every illegal injectable known to God or man, the other just works out.

The clean one is 80-90lbs smaller. Literally.

steve

 

brendon0:
The 80% figure is not an absoloute - I used to highlight the fact that most of what we do in the gym (if we're natural - as in, not on the juice) is just working with what we've been given genetically.
You're right, the only thing that's changed b/w Arnold's peak, and Ronnie's is: the drugs are much better. In comparison to Ronnie, most of the 70's bodybuilders look "small."
A lot of people want the easy way out. They want to buy their way to a perfect physique, and expect to only put in minimal work; the reality is, the harder you work, the better. Legal (and some of the stuff you can buy off the shelf, is banned in pro sports and in the IBB's natural class) supplements are either sugar powder or dangerous. Moreover, the ephedra debacle showed us that the supplement market is unable to appropriatly police its products for saftey; therefore, I echo SMSMD's sentiment to stay off most of , with the exception of : quality, bio-available protein, coupled with a low fat diet. And, of course, gallons and gallons of water.
In the end, the truth is: you've got to train hard, eat smart and lift consitently. The only thing that gets you anywhere, is driving iron. For which you don't need overpriced placebo supplements, pretty work out gear and hype - you just need self discipline. But to the dismay of many, you can't buy that.

 

I love lifting weights, and theres alot of good information on this thread. As well as on www.bodybuilding.com and their forums. Read up and you'll find a general message in everyones articles (same sort of info that has been posted here).

As for:

This could be true, but you can look good no matter what your genetics. Imagine Bruce Lee if he had never worked out. Probably some skinny stick man. But he worked out, and is remembered for having one of the greatest physiques ever.

 

Lee's genetic disposition, afforded him a physique; granted, he worked out hard, but he also had superb genetics - most people, do not have the striation, musculature and development that Lee did; i.e., most skinny guys that workout, will never look like Lee did.

 

Perhaps the muscle was there, and after working out and dieting it became more visible due to the loss of fat? Just a thought, I'm not saying I dont believe you, just most everything I've read has gone along with the whole "cant lose fat and gain muscle at the same time" thing.

 

I have a few things that I am struggling with.

First, the basic facts:

47 years old, 6"1".

I retired from playing league soccer in 2001. Too many injuries were beginning to pile up and recovery time was taking longer and longer. My job was suffering as was I. I basically ballooned up to 230lbs in about two years. I kept eating like I was still playing two games a week and training, but the only excercising was during my trips from the couch to the fridge.

Last Labor Day, I decided enough was enough and poured myself into a lifestyle change. I got an EBT Scan and found a small calcification in my left anterior descending artery. The score was 15.8. This scared the crap out of me. This fear of my own mortality has remained a big motivation.

I run approx. 30 miles a week, untill my soccer ankles and knees push me to the elliptical trainer or bike. I lift moderately 3 times a week. I mainly stay on the Cybex or Nautilus machines due to not needing a spotter and the ease of use.

I have cut my carb intake way down, I used Atkins at the beginning and I was very successful, but I am not a slave to the low carb diet. I try to keep my total calorie intake below 2000 calories a day.

I am now down to 195lbs. I feel very good. My resting heartrate is about 44, and my blood pressure was 116/68 at my last physical. But the weight guidelines I find everywhere seem to indicate I am still overweight. Most claim my ideal weight is around 185. I don't know if I can realistically maintain that weight. I have not mananged to get below 195 and stay there. Am I doing something wrong? I try to eat more small meals, but I still feel hungry all the time. It is a struggle to not overeat. I only take a multivitamin, fish oil, and L-Lysine (heart enzyme) as supplements.

Also, I cannot seem to lose all of my stomach paunch. I am not fat, but I still feel thick around the middle. I would like to at least have a hint of abs. (looking good naked has advantages)

Now I will readily admit to vanity as a motivating factor for working out. I am committed to the cardio because I don't want to die from an early heart attack, but the weight work goes directly to my desire to look better. I am currently taking a bit of a break from the weights as my elbows are killing me.

Is there something else I can do for the belly either in the gym or at the dinner table. Am I not working hard enough, am I still eating too much, or the wrong kind of foods?

Suggestions, berations, and comments welcome.

 

As far as the "guidelines" that indicate whatever, dont take them too seriously. My friend is in the exact same boat as you (albeit hes 18). He weighs 195 and is the same height, and according to those guidlines is overweight. Thing is, hes in great shape and just has alot of muscle, so look at it as realistically as possible.

As for losing your stomach paunch, well heres a few things: You cant target a fat area. Such as doing alot of sit ups wont decrease fat just around your abs. You just have to stick with what your doing (its one of the last places you lose fat). Drink a TON of water, gallon to a gallon and a half a day. Keep eating 5-6 meals a day, they dont have to be tiny, eat a ton of protein 250-400 grams a day. If you want to snack, eat a salad or protein bar, something healthy to tide you over until your next meal.

I'm not an expert by any means, but this is what I've found to work, and what I've read.