Losing fat / Building muscle mass | FerrariChat

Losing fat / Building muscle mass

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by anunakki, May 6, 2009.

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  1. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Im doing some research on the web and thought Id start a thread as I know there are many knowledgeable people around here.

    I am on a weight loss mission (lost ~30 lbs so far...30 more to go) and I am also wanting to bulk up my muscles. I want more of a thick 'Meathead' type body than a lean toned one. Yeah I know I know but its what i like.

    Most of my research says we cant lose fat and build muscle at the same time. i find this confusing as I have made a significant weight loss yet my arms and chest are definitely much larger than when I started.

    Whats most confusing is my caloric intake. Charts Ive found online say I should be at ~2100 calories per day to lose 2lbs per week ( I am 6'1" 260 lbs). I can easily stay under ~2100 calories per day. However is restricting my calories to that number going to inhibit my building of muscle mass ?

    What Im reading says that for every 1 lb of muscle I want to add I need to consume 500 extra calories.

    Im getting a bit confused as to how I should go about this at this point.
     
  2. wax

    wax Five Time F1 World Champ
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    No corn syrup or potato products.

    Isometrics
     
  3. 1_can_dream

    1_can_dream F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2006
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    To be efficient it's easier to focus on one or the other (fat loss or muscle building) however they're not going to happen completely independent of each other. While losing weight you will build muscle but it's not going to be as easy due to being in a calorie deficit. In contrast when trying to build muscle you're also going to gain some fat due to the calorie surplus and the fact that the muscles aren't going to absorb all the extra intake.

    IMO the key is to do it in phases. Try to cut some fat with the calorie deficit and after a while switch your focus to muscle building. The best way to try and combat fat gain during a bulking phase is the types of food you're eating. There should be plenty of sites online that can give you ratios of carbs/protein/fat for what you're specifically looking to do. Once you get to a point that you feel you've made the gains that you want, either based on the weight that you're lifting or specific body measurements, you can go back to the cutting phase to encourage weight loss. When back in the cutting phase be sure to continue the lifting but focus more on maintenance with higher reps and a little less weight than you were using during bulking.
     
  4. RSQP

    RSQP F1 World Champ
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    From what I understand from talking to a friend of mine who's a trainer, protein intake is important to build muscle mass. She recommends a dose of 1g protein per pound of body weight per day (as per Mayo clinic & Harvard Med School studies). I have no experience with it.

    Greek-style yogurt (non-fat variety) has 22g protein per serving vs. 11g protein per serving using regular nonfat yogurt.

    I'm not sure if this information is of much help, but it couldn't hurt. I've found that cardio and moderate caloric intake with minimal fat content works wonders.
     
  5. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
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    I've wondered the same thing. My chest and abs are feeling really good. I'm not as concerned about my muscle gain at this point, as I'm still just too large. I'm not perfectly sure where my caloric intake is (6'2" 246 lbs); but as far as what your saying, that makes sense that my muscles have sorta slowed in their size gain.
     
  6. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree with this.

    Here's a few articles I feel are worth reading on bb.com.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/fat_loss_training_wars.htm
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beginner_muscle_gain_program.htm
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beginner_fat_loss_program.htm

    And increase your protein intake by adding a whey shake or meal replacement shake. Although the MRP would add more calories than you would probably want to.
     
  7. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

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    #7 ducowti, May 14, 2009
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
    This is true - they are divergent goals, very difficult to achieve concurrently. If you're interested in elaboration we can discuss further. (Unless you tell me you've been scientifically measuring your arms and chest and can say they're in fact larger) what you're seeing is mostly a change in body composition. I.E. a reduction in subcutaneous fat exposes more musculature and THAT is what you're seeing as getting 'larger'. You also can't gauge your success or lack thereof on weight since lean mass is relatively dense and as you add that your weight will not drop as much as you want. Body composition (most readily measured with calipers in the hands of an experienced tester) will be your best/most reliable barometer.

    Oh yeah, and at this point, don't waste your money on expensive supplements or protein tubs; just eat well-balanced meals with good sources of animal protein (chicken, fish, eggs, milk, etc).
     
  8. fluque

    fluque Formula 3

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    very good articles. Thanks for posting
     
  9. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for all this input.

    What Im reading says I should be consuming ~ 260g of protein per day but Im having a hard time getting there without going over my caloric limit of 2100c. Should I supplement with a protein powder/drink or should I not worry about it at this point ?

    If Im pissing against the wind in terms of trying to build mass in my muscles while losing fat should I switch to lower weight/higher reps instead of what I am currently doing ? Right now Im lifting weight to where I fail between 12 and 15 reps (I do 4 sets).

    Its funny I used to hate working out but now I look forward to it. I wish I could lift every day but Ive been going every other day as everyone has told me I need to take a day off between workouts.

    Oh what is everyones suggestion for the best triceps exercises ? Ive been doing machine pulldowns and dumbbell extensions. Seems to be one of my weaker points.
     
  10. darth550

    darth550 Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I weighed myself for ****z'n'giggles before and after my 45 minute sauna just now and lost almost 5 pounds!
     
  11. DJS

    DJS Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2006
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    Tricep dips. You can either do them with a parallel dipping bar (as shown here http://www.etricep.com/tricep-dip.html) or simply by using the edge of a bench (as shown here http://www.betterbodz.com/tricep/tricep_dip.html). I usually do the former, but the second method is good too for when you don't have the equipment or you want to increase the weight by putting a weight plate on your lap.
     
  12. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    You sure you didnt take a dump during your sauna ;)
     
  13. Formula 1

    Formula 1 Formula 3

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    #13 Formula 1, May 15, 2009
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
    All I eat is eggs and chicken as well as veggies and nuts. I try not to eat to much fruit because I'm really trying to build my abs.

    My start weight was 167 and now I'm 158 as well as seeing the muscles starting to show. I also do 100 push ups as well as sit ups every other day. So far so good.
     
  14. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    The amount of protein is still (probably) the most debated issue in regards to building muscle. I think whatever you are consuming now; stick with it.

    You're already seeing fat/weight loss, so why forgo that to maybe add a little extra muscle at this stage. You'll be building regardless, it may just not be as fast.


    As far as tricep extensions, are you doing the both hands on one dumbell? If so, you could also do the single arm where your elbow is pointing out to your side and you bring your hand (palm facing head) down behind your head. It's essentially the same as the "normal" extension, I feel it works different area of the tricep.

    Also, kickbacks and skull crushers.

    For kickbacks I've implemented my own version, going off the 21 program for biceps. And found this has aided in filling in the spot near my elbow faster.

    But also the dips, via the rack or the bench are both good choices.

    Sometimes you just have to see what works for you and even make up your own stuff. It's great to see you're already noticing what and where your weaknesses are and focusing on that.

    And just to reinsinuate, focus most on using light weights and getting form down first and foremost.
     
  15. jackbezos

    jackbezos Rookie

    Jun 22, 2010
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    Hi ! I empathize with you. I was given this same bit of bookish 'guru gyan'. I did Bhastrika pranayama (yoga) for 45 min/day in three speeds viz: slow, medium & fast. My metabolism increased causing weight-loss, my abs got firmer & my body detoxified at the same time.
     
  16. Kev33

    Kev33 Formula Junior

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    Okay, I've been lifting for awhile now and I know the only way this is going to work. There are VERY few people I've met who have been able to lose fat while building muscle; it's just too difficult. Here's what you do: Bulk up as much as you possibly can. Eat everything in sight. Eat 2g/1lb bodyweight in protein per day. You should also eat a lot more calories than 2100 per day. I say go with about 4,000. Change your lifting routine to 6-8 reps HEAVY. After a few months of this your body will get used to it. Then, switch back to cutting (2100 calories per day and 12-15 rep range). If done correctly you should gain a lot of muscle during bulking (and fat, but don't worry) and once you start cutting your fat % should drop like a rock and you should be pretty big as well. Hope this helps.
     
  17. Fastviper

    Fastviper F1 Rookie

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    That might work...
     
  18. 1_can_dream

    1_can_dream F1 Veteran

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    Only not everyone has an 18 year old metabolism like he does...
     
  19. Kev33

    Kev33 Formula Junior

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    Yeah, you're right about that. You should still yield some pretty good results using this method, although older people would have a lot more trouble cutting down. The key here is to get as big as you possibly can, then worry about being "in shape". Like the guy said, he wants the "meathead" look.
     
  20. AlexO91

    AlexO91 F1 Rookie

    Sep 26, 2008
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    The majority of fat turns into muscle, and to be honest I'm not sure theres much point in loosing weight as muscle weighs more than fat anyway so you're just going to put it on again albeit in a different form. I would have kept the weight, ate the right foods, drank protein shakes and do the right weights for your size.

    http://www.maximuscle.com/
    http://www.menshealth.co.uk/
    http://www.mensfitness.com/

    These links might help.
     
  21. Gofastgirl

    Gofastgirl Rookie

    May 3, 2010
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    The goals are not divergent. If you have 30 lbs to lose, you need to exercise and eat right. If you want to build muscle, you need to exercise and eat right. Eating right means lean protein, veggies, fruits, nuts. No white stuff--bread, sugar, dairy. ESPECIALLY NO HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP. The stuff is poisonous. Rates of diabetes have soared in lockstep with the amount of HFCS in the American food stream. It was only invented in 1972.

    Exercise means 6 or 7 times a week. Lift weights twice out of that. Other days, sweat for 45 minutes to an hour doing something aerobic, or go for a 3-hour brisk bike ride or walk.

    Basically, your body is built to live like our prehistoric ancestors, pre farming, which means hunter-gatherer. So do like Og would do. Walk and be active. Eat things that you could, theoretically, hunt and gather. Protein shakes do not grow on trees, so don't bother with them. Eat turkey instead.

    Good luck!
     
  22. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    #22 Zack, Jun 25, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
    Completely not true. Fat and muscle are different, and not interchangeable.

    You want to lose fat. You do this in two ways.
    1. By burning what you have actively (cardio) and passively by running a calorie deficit so your body metabolizes the energy stored in fat during normal, everyday activities. Cardio exercise in the fat burning zone is your friend, but make sure you have the stamina and that you eat right. You have to be careful to fool your body into thinking everything is normal so it does not go into starvation mode and horde fat and slow down your metabolism. You do this by eating healthy while running the calorie deficit and by taking in foods whenever hungry to make your stomach feel full, making sure that they are healthy and low calorie or zero calorie foods (lettuce, apples, miso soup, carrots, etc., whatever takes more energy to digest than is provided by the food). Watch out for feelings of lethargy--that will tell you that your body is going into starvation mode. Eat a TON of salad.

    2. By increasing muscle mass so you have a higher metabolic rate so you don't convert any more excess energy into fat stores. The best way to do this is by lifting heavy weights -- or using your own bodyweight and doing the exercises and routines that gymnasts do (be warned, it can take years to build up to the advanced moves). Pay attention to rest and recovery periods.

    You can do both at the same time, within limits. Just realize you are not converting fat to muscle. Rather, you are burning off fat while adding muscle at the same time. You can mix and match the fat-burning zone exercises and muscle building exercises according to your body type and capability. Don't overdo it...slow and steady wins the race. Oh, and for the biggest bang for the buck, focus on the larger muscle groups.
     
  23. PureEuroM3

    PureEuroM3 F1 Veteran
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    The method I used to combine the two was weight loss first than muscle. I was near you at 6'1" 250lbs.

    First step was lots of cardio. I did this because I wanted to lose fat and get back into the groove. Once I lost some fat, my body got back into the active routine it was time for weights.

    I did weights few times a week while maintaining a less aggressive cardio schedule. I would not run +10km instead cut it down to 3-5km after my weight training.

    The results led me to under 185-190lbs.
     

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