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losing the soul

Discussion in 'SF90 Stradale' started by Dan D'Agostino, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
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    He is 100% certain in his own mind that human fossil fuel activity is accelerating the demise of humanity. He uses the following bases in our discussions:

    #1 I have a deep background in computer science. He has a deep background in physics. His arguments to me have been from a physics background. I am quickly lost as he grounds the discussion in physics.

    #2 because of his personal broad agenda and his involvement in this agenda, he cites so much data and depth of data in logical discussion that I am effectively powerless to refute. He wouldn't argue against any of your points above. He would state that we are only accelerating it vastly. And uses the data points and then his understand of physics from #1.

    At that point, I am basically stuck :) . I will admit it, I am basically stuck as I don't spend my time in the area and he does. Embarrasing to tell you but I feel intellectually conquered at that point.
     
  2. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
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    And OMG, I don't even want to bring up SF90 with him because he will throw it in my face. I do have one humorous story though....everytime he would visit me, he would come through my garage as I had an extra space. He would refuse while walking to even look at the 458 to his left :) . I didn't ask him. He just didn't want to ...see it.
     
  3. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    771
    Austin TX
    Human fossil fuel activity.

    Well, he must then be completely aware of how much fossil fuel activity is present in each Tesla much less its overall production, correct? From the tires, to synthetic materials in the interior. Remove all petroleum and coal and natural gas and...life on earth would be vastly different, billions of lives would be no more as it would be completely unsustainable...
    https://www.aboutpipelines.com/en/blog/6-ways-your-life-would-be-different-without-oil-and-gas/

    So, driving a Tesla or nothing at all is not really going to matter at all.

    Did you realize it would take over 31 years at current production for the total amount of petroleum (raw) used each year for all purposes to fill Lake Tahoe once? (Lake Tahoe is 39 trillion gallons and about 1.257 trillion gallons of petroleum are produced each year). When you look at it that way, it's not really all that much at all is it?

    And, precisely how is this fossil fuel activity accelerating the demise of humanity? It's actually vastly improving the lives of all! From medicines and medical abilities to transportation to agriculture ...
    https://www.iogp.org/about-oil-and-gas/oil-in-everyday-life/
    https://www.appea.com.au/oil-gas-explained/benefits/oil-and-gas-in-everyday-life/

    I wouldn't be typing this on my keyboard and computer if it were not for the power of petroleum and neither would your friend.

    Here is a seriously fun twist, I wonder what your friend would have to say about this article:

    https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/07/elon-musk-is-concerned-about-peak-population-of-developed-countries.html

    Seems whatever your friend is concerned about is going to settle itself out in the not too distant future, that's presuming massive solar flares and asteroid/comet strikes don't get to us first...

    https://nypost.com/2014/07/24/solar-flare-nearly-destroyed-earth-two-years-ago-nasa/

    https://www.livescience.com/61713-asteroid-flyby-late-notice.html

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/01/10/we-probably-wouldnt-even-see-a-doomsday-asteroid-until-it-was-too-late/

    Don't want to forget about volcanoes:

    https://theweek.com/articles/495053/6-volcanoes-that-could-shut-down-world

    In the meantime, I think we will be okay.
     
  4. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    4,114
    ^ what a great read!
     
  5. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
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    #155 gzachary, Jun 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
    At this point, I don’t know what to say because I understand and have talked about these points with this person. But changing their perspective won’t change.

    As I mentioned, I usually get so much data and input that then feeds logic of the discussion from his part. I can’t cite the same sources and amount of sources. He has non stop citing of them. And then the use of atmospheric and geologic physics starts (not just chemical) and another 2 hours go by and I am exhausted. And he is not. And at that point, I feel conquered.

    On the enjoyment of driving vs the transportation of driving, I have used specific examples of ... physical interaction with your significant other. And is it about metrics? Or enjoyment ? And isn’t sound important? And the sensations? :) He did get a laugh out of that. But he said it was the wrong analogy...because cars are about moving people. Which said it all.

    So after 25 years, we move onto the next topic that isn’t so .....charged :)

    And that allows us to bring the topic to what provides enjoyment in driving. Thoughts ?
     
  6. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

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    now that is well established, driving enjoyment, many things, smooth controllable performance with an outrageous exhaust note :) Driving excitement would be different, learning to tame the best, powering through a corner faster than you thought possible for yourself, etc...pushing your limits that are well within that of the car's
     
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  7. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
    2,444
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    This thread seems to have derailed to some extent, but I'm happy to contribute in the same direction ;)
    While I agree human activity probably has gone to the point it has become a serious hazard to the world ecosystem (the use of fossil fuel being one of the issues), I reckon one of the obvious factor is the human population. If the human population on earth would be half of what it is, whatever human activity would be far less of an issue for the earth.
    So my way to save the planet is to not have children (I'd feel guilty to bring them into this mess anyway) and I claim it's a far better help than refreigning to use an ICE car...
     
  8. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie

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    It's the simplest yet arguably most difficult thing to do. It wouldn't take long at all for population to decline massively by not having kids, but it's also just impossible to achieve and would require a complete rework of the entire global economy.

    It's actually more likely for science and technology to save the Earth than it is to half the population willingly. A plague would probably work though :x
     
  9. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

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  10. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie

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    Of course the population problem is in 1st world countries. They are the ones that use all the energy...

    Them and China.
     
  11. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    They've been claiming the ''if we don't tackle climate change now the world will end in 12 years'' since WAY before I was born. Same **** different day.

    They just want to use it as an excuse to tax us more.

    Same **** with that recycling ********. Where all the plastic and junk comes from that lands in the ocean? You can trace it back to 10 rivers in the world. NONE are from 1st world countries.

    Worlds largest cruiseliner company produces more co2 gasses than all of EUROPE combined each year! It's a joke. Cars are plenty clean now. Tackle the shipping industry and we'll talk again.
     
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  12. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
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    #162 gzachary, Jul 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
    I thought this video review by Davide Cironi of an F50 made me remember everything we all care about. As JTSE30 mentioned, freedom. To me the F50 is such an incredible Ferrari because of the sensations I saw from this video. Connection to the enjoyment of life through driving. I haven’t had the opportunity to own or drive one.

    In any case, I thought this might bring us back to the soul part of the discussion and what I have loved about Ferrari since I can remember. I hope you like it.

    Also, the portion that starts at 14:40 reminded me of all the incredible feelings as a kid I had growing up I had hearing formula one, see pictures of Ferraris,etc. That unrelenting exciting quest to find any images and information about your favorite car.

     
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  13. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    Not necessary for us to debate back and forth on the soul of Ferrari, when we can have our very own Luca explain it for us:

     
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  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    Fantastic personality, Very wise man and a true car guy.
    Without LdM Ferrari today would not exist anymore.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  15. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    To the OP's point: "Losing the soul," it is arguable that Ferrari lost it's soul when it lost LdM.
     
  16. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula Junior

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    What a gentleman....miss him very much...
     
  17. Ferrari FXX

    Ferrari FXX Formula Junior

    Jun 27, 2007
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    Relax times change and things change. You do realize Ferrari is slowly but SURELY preparing all of us an all electric car one day. I don't know how in the hell thats going to work with no sound but that's where we are headed. I hope that car will only be for the rich "greenie people".

    I thought the world had come to the an end when Ferrari went from the TR M to the 550.
     
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  18. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie

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    So how many people complaining about Ferrari's loss of "soul" are going to plunk down their hard earned money on 355s, 348s, manual 360s, maybe even a Scud?

    You're all in luck because many of Ferrari most soul-having cars are widely available at deep discounts. Enjoy! :rolleyes:

    **** changes. Either find something to like about it or move on. Ferrari is selling more cars than ever, so clearly what they're doing is what people actually want.
     
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  19. junc

    junc Formula Junior
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    You're right on change. The all electric Ferrari will be a shock. Imagine the controversy when that comes out even if it has 2 million HP and flies like a plane.
     
  20. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula Junior

    Jun 5, 2009
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    Ironically, some insiders said factory is plotting a new testarossa mid engine V12 sort of ..
    Long time karma maybe ..
     
  21. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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  22. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie

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    Because it appeared they "worked" with Pininfarina whereas Ferrari parted ways ;)
     
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  23. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    Well there you go....
     
  24. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

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    Wow, that is gorgeous.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  25. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
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    Agreed. It debuted at Goodwood over the weekend...
     
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