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Lost all gear oil today, 1991 Testarossa

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by PA32Pilot, May 9, 2020.

  1. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    this shim you only need just now for adjusting. so as I have written already in post 577 take the thickest shim you can find. it is easier later when you adjust the backlash to go down to thinner shims than otherwise
     
  2. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
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    I could send you a spacer that is thicker than standard by about thirty thousanths. If you use this spacer, you could screw your left side cover in tightening all the nuts equally until you have what you would think was a proper preload on the taper bearing set. There will be a GAP on the left side cover, between it and the case. Measuring this with a set of feeler gages, until you find one that just fits would get you pretty close to the right amount to subtract off the shim I provide. Then you KNOW what shim to buy. Hopefully you have a bearing race that is ground on the OD slightly, so you don't have to be heating up your left side cover to remove the race for setting up.

    Looking at the range of sizes in the parts book, there's only about a thirty five thousanths span of thicknesses in the stock shims. In an earlier post, I said I have bearing shims laser cut in .003, .005 and .010, in almost ALL common bearing sizes. BUT this taper roller bearing is actually an INCH size bearing with an OD of 3.5 inches! So these shims that I stock, won't work with these bearings. These shims could be used in conjunction with a bearing spacer to just fine tune the backlash, without having to buy or obtain a full thickness shim.

    I manufacture machine tool spindles, and a standard forty taper spindle uses 3.5 inch barstock. Generally I just stick the material in the lathe and turn the bulk of it into chips. BUT I can easily cut shims out of my barstock, and without much effort, could cut out almost FIFTY shims out of every spindle I turn. So that's what I'm going to do, for a few spindles. Machine tool spindles are made out of a high quality steel, certainly good enough for these.. I also have a rotary surface grinder, that actually is MADE for grinding these parts.A round, rotating magnetic chuck, that the part is ground by a reciprocating grinding wheel.

    In your post you say width minus the "bezel" is one dimension. I assume you're talking about the chamfer on the OD of one side. Machined parts that go into machined bores, tend NOT to have sharp edges, and a bore does NOT have a sharp corner, so that chamfer faces into the bearing bore. Of course the thickness of the part beyond the chamfer, is what your part should be measured at.
     
  3. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    Hard to get an accurate reading of what was there, I see when you're measuring the "whole thing" you're measuring the metal that was chewed off the shim surface and bunched up at the edge. Maybe order a few and pick shims in the middle of the factory range. Or a best guess could be average the two readings. You have to start somewhere and the initial shims will be a crap shoot.
     
  4. PA32Pilot

    PA32Pilot Formula Junior
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    I planned on putting the thickest in first to get a reading, especially since I have the machined racer and can swap them easily. But with shipping being $50 sometimes I'd rather do 1 order than 3 or 4 :)
     
  5. PA32Pilot

    PA32Pilot Formula Junior
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    An FChat member was gracious enough to send me a machined racer so that would make it easier.

    I made calls today and every place that showed them in stock did not actually have them in stock. The only one I could find in stock was with Scuderia Parts and it was 3.2mm so that should be shipped to me and received in a week or so.
     
  6. PA32Pilot

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    Yes, and I have no idea what the part looks like not chewed up lol.

    The thinnest part was 2.9mm.

    I called many places today and I could only find one in stock and it was 3.2mm at a price of $183. I hope I have it in a week or so.
     
  7. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
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    And I already have five shims made and can make ANY thickness shim in ten minutes.Just to check my process, I made them in ten thousanths increments, and now that I've done that I can make them in any size. From turned in a lathe out of 4150 barstock, to ground is a five minute a part process. At least that's what it is right now that my lathe is set up with 3.5 inch jaws. My material cost is ZERO, as where these shims are turned from, normally the material turns into chips.

    If you had read and responded I could have just SENT you a shim. 3.2mm is the largest shim I show in my parts book. I can grind anyone of my parts to any dimension at any time. There's almost zero set up on a grinder. I will have these in the future, so if anyone needs these shims, they can contact me. Frankly $183.00 for a shim is a rip off. As easy as these are to make, there's no excuse for a Ferrari parts vendor to not have them in stock.
     
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  8. PA32Pilot

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    You're awesome! Sorry I missed your post :(

    I will buy a few off you for sizing :)
     
  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    romano schwabel
    right :(

    this is a good way to start with
     
  10. xplodee

    xplodee Formula Junior
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    exactly, a total rip off and just another example of how we need more people like you to contribute to the group with parts supply for issues like this.

    Does anyone have clear pictures of the left and right side covers? I’m wondering if those can be cnc machined to increase supply and reduce another absurd price ($800) from the process of fixing a blown diff.
     
  11. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    romano schwabel
    here both side shims. I let laser cut some shims and grind them to the size I need
     

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  12. xplodee

    xplodee Formula Junior
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    Thank you!
     
  13. PA32Pilot

    PA32Pilot Formula Junior
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    HUGE shout out to Brian (versamil) for making shims! He is shipping me a variety and I was able to cancel my $183 shim! THANK YOU BRIAN!
     
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  14. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Brian that was very admirable.. thank you for your support to all of us

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
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  15. versamil

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    I ran over twenty shims yesterday in a variety of thicknesses, By the time I finished tweeking my program to try and eliminate burrs, and get my speed up, I was down to two minutes and twenty seconds per shim. At this point whenever I machine a machine tool spindle, I'll cut some more shims, instead of turning the bulk of material into chips. I'll HAVE them and I'm not going to shoot for the moon in selling them. This will be one way I give back to this forum, which has been an awesome source of information.

    So the side cover that explodee, thinks is a viable candidate to remanufacture, at $800.00 for a new one from Ferrari, is NOT a great part to make, but doable. To machine this part, a 25 pound eight inch round chunk of aluminum has over twenty pounds of material whittled off. At roughly 2.50 a pound for aluminum, your material costs right off the bat is around sixty bucks. For a shop to make this affordable (what IS the right price), it's hardly worth the effort. I think quite a bit of material that Ferrari saved by carefully coring out their pattern to pour the casting of this part, could be LEFT on the replacement part. But this would have to be carefully thought out, and tested in a differential. Not much upside in this for a possible sale of five or ten. The finished Ferrari part only weighs 4 1/2 pounds!
    No shop could justify having a pattern made to pour these and then machine.

    I'm going to have the passenger side large shim laser cut sometime this month. Not sure what they will cost, but I'll get it cut out of the thickest size, and then can grind to whatever thickness someone wants.
     
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  16. xplodee

    xplodee Formula Junior
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    By viable I mean to cnc it on my own. I’d stomach $60 material cost for a $400 part no problem. Saves everyone $400 and you wouldn’t have to wait to find one. But I have zero interest in liability or testing haha. I’d need to work with someone who knows the requirements of that part very well and agree on all the tolerances with that person.
     
  17. PA32Pilot

    PA32Pilot Formula Junior
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  18. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
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    The larger right side shim is much thinner than the left side shims, so it DOESN'T work out to laser cut the smaller shim with the passenger side shim.
    You'd grow OLD grinding that much material off to reach the range of thickness of the larger and it seems MUCH more expensive right side shim.

    All Ferrari parts in Ohio has six or seven left side covers for a 512M in stock. Selling them at $775.00. so NO shortage of left side covers. No waiting either. Now the real question, are they original Ferrari parts, or have the CHINESE discovered a rather lucrative parts market? When they DO discover shims being sold for $185.00, you can bet they'll exploit that in a heartbeat. But like anything made in China, I'd always feel wary of their quality, and worry that the side covers were made out of recycled beer cans. Interestingly, Algar sells the left side cover for $2200.00. That's a REAL Ferrari part at real Ferrari pricing. That's a part and price that invites someone to turn in a CNC lathe.
     
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  19. PA32Pilot

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    There are Chinese knockoff parts?

    I bought my LH side cover from All Ferrari and I do not want Chinese junk on the car. It’s supposed to be delivered today so I’ll be checking it. When I spoke to them they certainly never said anything about it bing a Chinese part.
     
  20. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
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    Don't jump the gun- I have NO IDEA whether they're Chinese, but when a company has a LOT of any part in stock, that is really quite expensive, a guy like me HAS to wonder. Maybe they have a connection with the manufacturer of the part and are buying them cheap and direct from Italy. Maybe the Chinese have already figured out what a gravy market Ferrari parts could be. The Chinese have certainly taken over the market for old stock American parts. Go down to your local auto parts store and where do you think the majority of the parts are made.

    I was looking at their website, when I saw the original side cover was discontinued, and Ricambi listed the newer 512M part number as the replacement. A google search led me to Algars price of $2200.00 and then All ferrari parts listing on Ebay showing the same part for $815.00. A phone call and they told me they had six or seven of them and offered a discount immediately. A little bit of sleuthing to see if this really IS a viable part to make. At their price and the fact they have so many- not a chance.
     
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  21. PA32Pilot

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    Maybe Capristo makes the part for them? Image Unavailable, Please Login
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  22. xplodee

    xplodee Formula Junior
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    Gorgeous part. if Capristo has their name on it then I'm sure its fine and since it appears to be an in-stock item (likely the 8x is capristo USA's inventory but that's still a lot) then reinventing the wheel seems pointless. Based on that casting and the machining operations, I'm sure there is a healthy margin. But it seems like they deserve it, especially considering Algar's OEM is $2200
     
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  23. PA32Pilot

    PA32Pilot Formula Junior
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  24. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
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    Piles of Money!! I THINK they sent you the part they have pictured on ebay. I called them because the picture of the part with part number 156352, has a machining anomaly on one of the bolt holes that is directly opposite of the vertical hole that bolts this housing into the bottom of the block. You part appears to have something machined weird in the same bolt hole. The Chamfer is missing, and an endmill seems to have left a mark. Your picture of the part looks WAY better than the part on ebay. Maybe it was their photo, but something went wrong on that hole.. So this is supposed to be the upgraded 512M cover. I'm trying to see what's different. it looks just like my original cover.

    Doubt Capristo made the part, they just shipped it in a Capristo box, because they had it.

    before you do anything, stuff that cover into your clean gearbox housing without any seals or the o-ring, and see how it fits. The saddles in the middle of your gearbox should fit the part snugly. You want to make sure it fits, before you start struggling with the rest of the parts. Your spacers will hopefully arrive Friday, so you have a weekend of fun to look forward to.
     
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  25. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
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    Check ebay auction number 153294313677 entering this number in search. Look at the bolt hole at the 11 o'clock position.
     
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