Lotus Emira

Agreed, but Ferrari dont care, cause theyre making luxury handbags for men very successfully, not enthusiast cars which is a more limited market.
Ferrari used to say they were all about latest tech, so manual was not prat of the picture. It is also true that the last ferrari manuals 430 and 599 were not a happy marriage and did not work integrate well with the motor(im ignoring the cali cause thats a failed masser to start).. Also given that most ferrari owners buy the car as a status symbol and otherwise need easy to drive an At it makes sense, so they sell an at with paddles cause theyre "faster" latest etch but really are an at, while owners egos are intact in believing they have the fastest best car, but its an easy to drive at.

in all fairness an paddlles work great in modern traffic, so you can use the car more often more of the time, feeding opportunistically on the road where and when conditions permit, but yes something essential in the experience is lost when youre pressing on. Drving a manual, thats part of the art and sheer joy of driving for its own sake..

In a modern car when you develop a driveline with lots of systems esp anti yaw etc and emissions compliance, its apparently far easier to do with a paddle where shifts are always consistent. lastly offering a manual means double the compliance testing.

As ferrari was backordered anyway and as Ferraris are today a brand that hapens to make cars, with the company having abandoned the core driving enthusiast in luca days, why bother with a stick. Ironicaly the newer ferraris with turbos and low down Tq would work great with a stick, although maybe its even harder with electrics added..Can you imagine a 296 no electrics so 3000lbs and a stick, slower yest, desirable 10x, compelling certainly, but were not the majority of the buyer.

There is or was also the beating drum that manuals were dead and no one wanted one. This was more of a European cultural thing as traditionally cheap European cars were all manual of necessity(price and power). In the USa an At was called a slush box, came in most cars and fast cars were manual so different cultural outlook.

What BMW was first to discover when they offered the v10 m5 paddles only was an outcry and they built a manual for that car in USA only, even though it was notionally slower> BMW now offer manuals in M2-4 cars to this day. Although not in the Uk. Next came Porche who scrapped the manual in the Gt3, only to have to bring it back. 40-50% of Gt3s in usa are ordered manual. Honda CTR manual, and we read the youth have rediscovered manuals, gearheads like manuals esp one who are healthy enough to, push a clutch..Manuals are not logical, but then performance cars are not logical.

The thing about he manual is it now lives now in the experiential performance car, and is part and parcel of that road driving experience, along with other subjective like engine sound etc.
While some may say manuals cant work with high Tq engines that's bunkum. The latest porche sport classic is a hi tq turbo motor with a manual. Astons been doing limited runs of its v12 with turbos and manuals too. The v10 BMW worked with a manual. I used to think that a manual was not a great idea for say a 458 as it was low Tq high rev and so shifting to make it work needed to be quick near the redline, but a Gt3 has the same characteristics and works fine.

There is no doubt that on track paddles are way quicker and allow for more closely spaced gears, far faster changes and better driver concentration. On road paddles are mostly used as auto boxes, some cars like the camros and BMW M4 when they have paddles they're even actual auto boxes,still almost as fast or equivalent to a true dual cultch paddle shift. On road its also true these days that an AT or paddle box will accelerate faster and offer better fuel economy,( as will a tesla.)

Where does this leave us. Paddles are easier to do and certify. If 70+% of a market wants an at and thats all you offer on a high demand car, you loose nothing by (except long term brand equity) not offering a manual, so its easy not to do one, and far cheaper to have just offer one choice..

if your customer is a true driving enthusiast, and that's your base, then you have a niche served by offering a manual. I wonder how many emira buyers are getting that car because of styling while offering an an evocative sounding motor with a manual. probably a lot.

im willing to bet that if ferrari suddenly offers what Ducati calls a sport classic, ie a NA v12 with a manual, the line would stretch round the planet and the premiums will go on for decades. But ferrari does not do enthuasiast focused cars anymore. At least they have rediscovered great styling.

lastly probably the single best car being produced today from an driving enthusiasts point of view is the GM T33, its light v12 and a manual, the lotus formula tuned up to 20. They're all sold at 3 mill a pop, and Gordom Murry himself said that his customers all asked for a manual.

Most people want a car that looks fast, looks expensive, exudes that ersatz race car vibe but is otherwise easy in traffic, and works on the way to the golf club.

Lotus still serves the enthusiast, but its client base is correspondingly small cause they dont do GT ersatz race cars as well, at elast not yet. Porche offers a few thousand real enthusiast cars per year and they're sold out. The market is probably bigger than is assumed, just look at Hoinda CTR or Toyota Gr corolla, not to mention all those mustangs.

peoples say they want performance cars, but mostly what they want is cool looking cars with lots of Hp, that post a great nuerbeirg lap(for the what it can do mindset) but are otherwise as easy to wheel as a Cadillac. paddles are the great excuse,and they're "faster" so cred is maintained on that drive to valet parking.

Lotus emira has the looks, its got the sound and the engagement, if they have the build right, then there is a giant funnel leading all those customers abandoned elsewhere to them.

Some say lotus does not compete with Ferrari, as an owner of both, I'lll say as a driver experience Ferrari hasn't competed with lotus in a decade or more,

the good news is while there are less new true enthusiast cars out there, the ones that do exist are better than ever and Ill bet the last ice car produced will be a manual enthusiast car, .

 

The take rate on manual GT cars IN THE U.S. is high. The rest of the world, not so much. I read that 70% of German market GT's are PDK.
There's also the point that the GT3 engine is a low torque engine so fitting a manual was/is easy. It is notable that the GT2RS is PDK only, no doubt because of that engine's torque.

And how's the manual take rate on the MEAT of the 911 line, the Carrera. The GT's are a small piece of the big 911 pie.

 

Meh, Gordon Murray would likely disagree

 

^^^
I'm sure he would disagree...
Uh...what's the PRICE of a T.50? A T.33?
Now, what's the PRICE of a Corvette?
No doubt the x-Trac manual in the T.50 costs MORE than an entire Corvette...but when you're charging $3 million, why not?

What that article shows is that the REAL enthusiasts are Miata buyers...74% choose manuals.

 

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Harry's Garage


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Dark Verdant in the sunshine. I'm loving this car thus far.

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Lucky dog!
Here in the U.S…. It’s been crickets


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Was at a lotus club event at WGI, there was a parked demo emira there.
According to the rep they had some epa/dot type issues which are more or less resolved and deliveries will start soon.

My impressions, looks great, and the interior is a massive step up, well built and feels exotic luxury. Its all kinda junior supercar where the V6/v8 ferraris used to be before say the 458. Or where a regular aircooled porche used to fit on the pantehon.

Then they started it up, it made the usual muted exoticky exhaust noises. Nothing exotic or raw sounding like a Hurrcaine, or z06. More like some sort of muted Gt with pretenses to sound like an exoitc. And therein for me lays the problem. I have nothign against off the rack motors, but this one is long in tooth, and for that matter underpowered given its weight and todays standards. Put a z06 motor in and were really talking, or even one of those new 500+hp turbo v6s like in an alfa or amg merc, hell charge 20k more it would be worth it..

Yeah i know they're going to do the 4cyl amg mtor, but neutering it to 360hp from the 421 in a Mercedes. 4cyl turbo motors have two attributes, weight and power. otherwise theyre comparatively vibratey and sound crap. To me the 4cyl car would need that 421 hp from the factory, mappable to 500 and to loose a few hundred pounds.

As it is we can see how this car is currently aimed by lookijng at the brake rotors. Theyre both drilled and grooved which is all about marketing over substance.
Youd thibnk after the failure that was the evora, marketing thinkign as 2+2 was an idea and importing all the first US cars in Auto only lotus would have a clue.
My bet is they will sell more than a few of the v6 cars cause it looks grreat and the cabin is even nicer,(compared to a evtte its a paragon of good taste luxury and vitrtue) and the powertrain shortcomings wont matter as a daily semi exotic. But in a year or two or 3 when that market is sated if they want to keep selling this car its going to need the good bits.

Ive got a z06 on order, if the emira had a great motor and the right shocks springs and brakes it would be a no brainer for me.

 

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The problem for me is that once you crest 450-500hp in a 3,000 lbs car you can’t wind it to the top of third gear on a public road without jeopardizing everyone around you

 

Chris Harris review of the Emira states about the same.
super car looks... but "only" 400hp.... but it is all "usable".
1% of Z06 end users will have the talent to use its insane power.
heck, maybe 5% of standard vette owners can use the almost 500hp...

 

Its problem is the gt4 exists.

 

I'll tell you why I think this is an invalid assessment, despite being a 100% accurate metric.

When F1 transmissions first came out, it was brand new and the thought of having F1 technology was very exciting, and shifting performance was better than a human, so lot's of people checked that box. Now that we have lived with F1 transmissions for a long time, and the maintenance and repair costs, and the pragmatics of living with them (e.g. car can't be started or moved when something as simple as the F1 relay fails), and the F1 novelty has worn off, many of us have "been there done that" on F1 and don't need it and don't want it.

That's before you even consider that manual is just more fun for recreational cars. After owning two F1 cars, I will never buy another. Period. The massive price delta on used Ferrari's for manual versus the same model in F1 tells the story of what demand is today for many of us now that the F1 novelty has worn off and pragmatics of living with F1 have sunk in. The 10% data point back then is not relevant to today, when people have "been there done that" with F1, and miss manual transmissions (since, back then, we never could have even imagined that introduction F1 would mean the total annihilation of the availability manual transmissions).

 

It looks friggin' amazing, especially in that color. I defy anybody to look at that picture and say "I think I'll get a GT4" .

It simply can't be done (in my opinion ).

 

i saw emira at local dealer last month. yes, its a beauty but i would absolutely take gt4 over it. and i value style very much in car decisions too. lotus get extra point for looks but gt4 wins every other category

 

I literally just got done saying it can't be done!!!

Did you not read that??

I hear you. I always put the driving experience over looks and pretty much all other factors, but that car just looks DAMN good. I'd have to drive both to know which I prefer, but the driving feedback seems to be excellent on the Emira also.

 

i put style right up there with driving experience in importance but emira is only slightly better looking while gt4 will be way ahead in driving, reliability, convenience, etc.

regardless, i will never sell my elise despite this being my 10 yr anniversary with it. but maybe if they make an emira spider with 500 hp but that will never happen.

 

Ive got the same powertrain in my exige v6 which weights 800-900lbslbs less. The motor is great for what it is, sounds nice esp without cats and is smooth. If you blow the motor then its like 7k for a new short block. However with supercharger while its repoinsive and better than a turbo it does not have the same degree of precision as a NA motor, and there is heat soak.. The transmission is cable shifted and once again lacks that tactile feeling especially when pressing on hard. On my car we went to solid motor mounts and removed all the bushings from the transmission linkages, thats a big improvement and fine for a track car but does not work for a road car.

These are all points of precision that say a GT4 has in spades. What could however set the emira apart from its natural competitors is a superior power to weight ratio, that would mean more power and less weight. Lower weight which used to be a lotus usp would improve both ride and handling, somehow this car is 150-200lbs heavier than a cayman.

Can you use 500hp on the street, mostly not, but you sure can on track, and yes even on road here and there its deployable. Im someone who thinks my 280hp gulia has more than you can use on road, and find my 350hpo e46 m3 more than plenty, my elise is still Na, but an emira should be a cut above, and in looks this car says junior supercar. I guess my critique is they way they're neutering the 4cyl amg car, why. The v6 comes with a manual and v6 refinement thats its usp, the 4cyl could be the raw slugger. If lotus does not make a car with superior performance in some way, be it handling , or speed, then what is it, really nice looking, imo that's not enough.

If you're selling a 100+k car, it needs a motor to do it justice too, even a mustang has that. Not saying it needs to be a bespoke motor, but it needs somehting. The car looks and feels exoitic, part of what makes a hurrciane, or a 458 is the motor.
Can you imagine if lotus had started with the evoira 400 instead of the compromised initial evora.,

 

The emira looks standout, junior lambo ferrari standout, and the interior is even nicer. It really feels special in that regard. However imop it does ntoi have the mtor, and if the evoira 400 is close to how it drives, thats really not great. I thought the evora steering was overboosted and the whole car not really so precise.
Maybe the emira is different, and maybe as reported it has more top end punch, but to my ears it sounded more pedestrian than the looks suggest, and if its the evoira motor, yeah it was linear but summed to lack punch, as did the 348.

 

400hp will be good enough for me to have fun and wind out the motor as much as possible. Sure it is deemed slow, relative to current cars. But how often are you putting the pedal to the metal in your 458 in a turn (not a straight line)…that’s the fun in the Lotus, maximizing and extracting every single HP with momentum driving.
I do agree that the Emira is missing the mark in the power to weight ratio, but Colin is rolling in his grave moreso, because the Emira isn’t “adding lightness.” But that ethos is unfortunately, long lost in today’s EPA era.
We used to strip Elises’ weight on the track to bare bones. I wonder how much weight can be stripped off the Emira.
I really want a V6 Exige like boxerman, but to drive on the street…have a dealer license coming so maybe…….


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I dont see the emira as a momentum car, it weights something like 3300lbs. Its also really hard to really buse momentum on the road, too many driveways cross street blind corners etc. On road its more relatively slow in and once you can see through the exit fast out. By way of example its rare I even get into the second cam on my Na elsie on backroads, and thats still a whole lot of momentum.

I guess I'm saying something different. part of the drama, the occasion of a special car on road(elsie and 4c exceptted cause they really are light) is the motor, along with steering feel(shout out for the gulia), styling and maybe interior. There is a certain satisfaction to be had in winding a motor out even at part throttle, or blasting off the apex once you can see though a corner, or just whacking it on highway for shiuts and giggles.. There's something in the sound and feel of a motor.

It could be the weight of the car, or the gearing, but I found the evora 400 to be anodyne, the power delivery was adequate and linear, it simply lacked powerplant drama and that sense of push.

The exige v6 on road, it accelerates like a bat out of hell, like opening the taps on a 1000cc superbike, actualy too much for a back road, and full throttlke in third will quickly take you to the scene of the accident, yet it can still absorb more on track.

458 to me was clown car, there was little power untill near the top of the rev range, then the xhaust baffles opened like a clown car at which point you hit warp speed, and yes no one drives like that on road.488 while stylistically challenged was afar better road car cause it had tq and power at relative revs and road speed, the top end was just a nice to know.

I guess Im saying that( using the evora 400 as the benchmark) between weight and gearing, there's just no drama anywhere, and the sound on the emira I heard was nice but muted. There's a reason why a huirricaine or z06 or Mustang Gt or zl1 seem so compelling, and the powerplant characteristics and sound play a big role. On the elsie the motor always sounded like a bucket of bolts, and is never really smooth or sonorous, but an elise can get away with that cause it has virtues other cars simply dream of. Alfa 4c powerplant and gearing was a peach, even with paddles and turbo. The emira is nice, not stunning but nice. A bit of powerplant drama and punch would push it into stunning, it doesn't have to be supercar fast.

Imo it should be Gt4rs fast with some drama. Ill even accept a turbo 4 if it gets some real holy ***** go on top. Right now imo its ferrari/lambo looks and cockpit with lexus feeling power. Thats probably a good formula for the first few years of sales as a pure road car.

Kinda ironic that lotus finally builds a quality car, but phones in the performance, its not bad, theres just zero usp in terms of driving performance, unless you consider a stick and v6 toi be a usp, which admitedly in these days it is.

I guess for me lotus (along with porsche Gt series) was the last authentic performance car. Now werre getting a rebadged volvo electric suv built in china which is fine cause businesses need profit and volume. But we also see that everything ICE thats truly honed with great/standout class performance from a honda CTR to Gt4rs is seriously on backorder. The emira is in many ways a standout car, they just need to finish the job and not treat it as a placeholder till the electric revolution.

All electric cars will be fast on road and drive similar, so Lotus is a good brand for their Chinese to give their electric cars some cachet. Meanwhile some smart companies are not abandoning ice for the performance driver.

Id gladly pay 120-140k for an emira with a powerplant that really got the adrenaline going, rather that than a pcar or a z06, cause yeah the emira really is exotic looking and that interior is as they say in the UK the biz.

Now if the emira weighted 2500-2700lbs with the v6, that would be compelling, but at 3200-3300lbs it needs more. I guess Im also thinking different cause a car like this, or any exotic, in my book its gotta be trackable.

For road you're right, 400hp is prob perfectly adequate, along with drilled rotors.

 

I agree with your points….the Elige is really the proper momentum car.
You’re right, if the Emira drives like the Evora (which it probably will), then it may not be too impressive.
It may miss the mark in terms of power to weight, of which there are really only 2 options….
Increase power to about 500…tune it or wait for the i4 and tune it…
Decrease weight by 2-300 lbs… not sure how plausible this is


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Agreed (Boxerman, Plastique). The current powertrain choices for the Emira just don't cut it and are really letting the rest of the car down.

The car looks gorgeous and fresh. It'll get a lot of attention on the road. If it wasn't for how it looked though, I wouldn't have given the car a second thought based on the powertrain, and I certainly wouldn't have continued to hold onto my (early) deposit spot this long.

I suspect, though, that I'll just take the $$ I would have spent on the First Edition Emira and along with selling my current Lambo, move up to a Huracan Evo RWD Spyder. And won't miss the FE Emira one bit if I make that leap. Thank you, Lotus, for delaying the Emira so far past when it was supposed to be delivered that you gave me the time to consider other options.

Where things might get interesting is years from now when Lotus has gotten to the final versions of the Emira. Lots of CF & better seats along with other weight reductions, better brakes, higher-output versions of the I4, and less gremlins from the assembly line. At that point, the aftermarket will also have long since figured out how to tune the I4 to the mid-to-high 400's (and tons of torque) regardless of if Lotus gives the car the power bump it deserves. Though it'll still sound like a Merc turbo 4 sadly.

I think the Emira generates a lot of emotion because we see what the car "could have been" but isn't currently achieving.

 

Seems lotus looked at evora and said, we need to improve its looks and then we re all set.

Having seen emira and evora parked together, I feel they're very close in looks. Whatever effort they put in on styling would have been better spent on drive train