Low mileage Drop gear failure, how do high quality bearngs rust?

Do you do frequent oil changes? High quality oils contain anti-corrosion additives, but they do not last forever. Thus, the need to regularly change oil even on a low millage car that is not driven frequently.

 

It's from too little use (and condensation) -- the upper part of the transfer gear mechanics especially relies on use to get good lubricant distribution (but so does the whole thing). Same way that the upper half of the ring gear can get rusty from long disuse being up out of the lubricant in the reservoir -- needs to be rotated occasionally to get recovered in lube.

 

Steve is right. Owner issue but do a little search on ferrari bearing quality. 170787 timing case bearing and tensioner bearings used over several models comes to mind. Shout out to Hill engineering!

 

Too much sitting / condensation usually (as Steve mentioned above). You need to circulate the oil occasionally to coat the bearings, if they aren't sealed bearings w/ grease. Also heat generated in the oil / gearbox (from driving) helps burn out water and condensation inside the gearbox (depending on if the gear box has a breather system or not). On my daily driver (Toyota), for example, I drilled a hole into the gearbox and added my own larger breather tube. Always keep in mind that air has some level of water in it based on relative humidity.

On my chainsaws (which often sit for years with no use), I usually swap out the internal crankshaft bearings out for hybrid ceramic bearings. Was just sitting here at my desk building some hybrid bearings as a matter of fact; rebuilding an older Stihl 036 saw. Luckily the old bearings didn't have any signs of pitting yet.

Here's a pic of the bearings for the Stihl. Some bearings lend themselves to this job, some don't. It mostly comes down to if you can pop out the cage without destroying the bearings. I saw recently where Tesla had switched to using ceramic hybrid bearings on their drive units, since they were having issue with the bearings conducting electricity when the brushes in the motors started to go.

Also, oils with esters in them (e.g. Motul 300, etc.) tend to stick to metal surface better in my experience. That might help reduce issues such as these on low mile driven vehicles. I ran Motul 300 in my differential / gearbox for a while and from what I could see, that oil coats and sticks on the gears really well. Very sticky stuff.

Ray


Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Low milage cars are crap. Sorry. They look nice..but are a disaster.

 

Back in the day when every F40 had 200 miles on it - "you're suspect"

Ray

 

Bull ****. Poorly maintained cars are crap regardless of mileage. I regularly see low mileage cars in perfect condition.

Lets not spread ignorance.

 

Thats a common problem on 4WD trucks that are never used in 4WD. That is a poster boy example of either poor maintenance or too infrequent use, probably both. I have seen 308s with the entire transmission rusted out from being in a humid environment with too infrequent driving and too infrequent service.
Time does not stop when the key is turned to "Off".

 

When I was a teenager, my friend's mom had a beautiful 1960's Silver Cloud Rolls Royce in the garage. I think it maybe had 1200 or 1500 miles on it. My friend told me all the miles were from her driving it to the local dealer once a year for service. It belonged to her late husband and she kept it perfectly maintained every year, but otherwise never really drove it. That would be an example of a super low mileage car that was in near perfect condition inside and out. It looked like it just rolled off the showroom floor, yet was over 25 years old.

I've bought a number of high mileage cars. I always try to think to myself, "well, the metal doesn't know how old it is". Plastic on modern BMW motors might be a different story, but for older cars generally the frame, engine parts, etc. aren't really affected all that much by high vs. low miles, unless the vehicle was parked outside for its entire life or something. Like Brian says, it's all about proper care and maintenance.

My pickup truck has almost 1/2 million miles on it. Frame is fine. Gearbox is fine. Axles, fine. What was not fine was the interior, because the truck spent 25 years on a farm with - I gather - the windows always down. Let's just say cleaning the interior and ventilation system was very time consuming. The thing that worries me most when buying used cars isn't the miles; it's if someone has been in there mucking around with the motor or, worse, the electrical system, when they don't know what the F they are doing. That's when things can really go sideways on a used vehicle.

Ray

 

So I guess nothing ever wears out then?

 

On my truck? No, just about everything required replacement. Seals, wheels bearings, brakes, pistons, rings, etc. I mean the main structure of the vehicle - body, frame, major castings (gear box housing, differential housing), engine block. Yes, the engine block required honing, but the block itself was just as structurally sound as a new car would have been I think. I don't think the age of the cast iron made too much difference either way (outside of expected wear on the cylinders).

Take my lathe for example. The main castings are from I think 1899 - still works just fine. I was just applying that same concept to cars. Did the lathe require new spindle bearings? Yes, it did because of wear and tear over the years. But my lathe is as good or better than a brand new lathe. Yes, the ways had to be reground, but over a 100 years old.

Like you said yourself - high or low miles - it's all about the maintenance.

Ray

 

I think what Tom was getting at above there was not just low mileage cars being crap, but cars which have been sitting without any upkeep. I don't wanna speak for him, but that's my take.

I personally would rather have a low mileage example of a car, which has enjoyed some level of use and some level of reasonable service/maintenance than a car which has been sitting parked for 20 years with zero attention. Shopping for an FJ60 and that's a good example. Lots of cars with 100's of thousands of miles, but serious neglect. Also cars with almost no miles, but have been sitting in a field rotting for 10 to 15 years. It's always a case by case basis. But baring rust, does the age of the frame matter? Not really. Does it matter if the frame or bumper has moved 10K vs. 500K miles? As long as it's not rusted or damaged, I don't think that matters too much. Wheel bearings yes.

Ray

 

Thats an excuse and a bad one. No one mistakes the word "mileage" with "condition".
Its utter ignorance and widely displayed here.

 

Well, semantics I guess.

I mean you have to agree that when talking about the vast majority of used vehicles, condition and mileage are usually pretty tightly correlated - unless you are dealing with a car which has been restored or has received far above average maintenance over its lifespan.

I think the average person would equate "high mileage" to "not great condition" when talking about cars. I mean unless they are Tesla owners.

Ray

 

That correlation has never in history applied to Ferrari.

 

Yes, I would definitely agree with you there. In fact, it's probably inversely correlated.

Ray

 

Condition and service history is more important than miles with F cars .How ever millage plays a part in the buying equation.

Also kinda with older F cars like 3#8 s ( all versions ) they are more hobby cars infrequently used due to not enough hours in the day and seasons .So don’t tend to wear out .It’s an niche market occupied by enthusiasts.
This infrequent use age pattern has its own issues well documented.

 

Plastics and rubbers dry out and deteriorate with time (seals, hoses, bushings, etc). Some it's irrelevant if they are used or not or what environment they have been exposed to... others it does matter if they exercised, lubricated, etc. I'm a believer that it certainly helps to use a machine and the machine that has been taken care of and used at regular intervals will be the better machine than one that has not.

Given the choice 100% of the time I'm taking the machine that has been cared for, maintained as needed, and used.. over one that has been not used.

Example.. soft touch coatings on interior buttons. Those will deteriorate in all conditions irrelevant of how it was kept.
I have to believe that Brian has had more than a few occasions when an old plastic clip on a harness has become brittle and disintegrated when removing it or performing some maintenance. A case where an old low mileage car can quickly become a nightmare as it looks perfect until you touch it.

 

But no more so than an old high mile car. And parts of that description typically deteriorate far faster with heat exposure in use.