Low suspension with lift option | FerrariChat

Low suspension with lift option

Discussion in '348/355' started by radback, Jan 16, 2023.

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  1. radback

    radback Formula Junior
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    Dec 14, 2020
    519
    France
    Hi,
    I love low cars, and I always set my cars as low as possible as long I can pass speed bumps or other obstacles without scraping them too much.

    Unfortunately, with the F355 and its massive overhang front bumper, my car is too high for my taste but still scratching the front and middle undercarriage.
    So the only way to be able to drive low and pass obstacles is to have a variable height suspension.

    I would like to set the car height with one finger between the tire and fender for a drive, and be able to raise it 5cm higher to pass speed bumps and other obstacles.

    What options are available?

    At first I wanted to fit an air suspension.
    Many kits available between $3000 and $5000.
    Sounds fun, looks cool, but how does it feels compared to coilovers at low ride height?
    Not sure if they're as good as them. They might be too soft if not fully inflated...

    So I searched and I found Air cups. About $1000.
    https://www.stanceparts.com/fitment/
    You have regular coilovers, and over them an aircup that can be inflated to raise the car about 4 or 5 cm.
    Sounds perfect.
    Only issue is it can't be fitted on original coilovers.

    At first I planned to keep the original active suspension, but I can't figure a solution to add a lift kit to it.
    So I guess I'll have to find smaller diameter coilovers if I want to use aircups.

    I'm not even sure I can find something to the front with coilovers. There is not much space around the original suspension at front. Not sure that a 110mm aircup will fit...

    Any ideas welcome.
    I want to lower my car and be able to lift it if needed! :)
     
  2. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    Feb 7, 2002
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    Barry Wolinsky
    Search the 456/550/575 Forum. A couple of members added hydraulic lift kits to their 550s...





     
  3. ChoonHound

    ChoonHound Formula 3
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    May 13, 2022
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    I investigated air cups for my Esprit when they first hit the market in 2010/11. I encountered the same issues (and more) and decided against them.

    1) the air cups sit above the spring, and as I understand it they force you to apply a little preload to the spring relative to your current perch height. I could be wrong, suspension stuff makes my brain itch, but I think I am right. Anyway, this is undesirable.

    2) you still need a compressor and air tank (though not a big one) so you’re installing most of the “infrastructure” needed for proper airbags.

    3) air cups aren’t actually bladders. They’re two pieces of aluminum with a an oring and are prone to leak. At least they were.

    All in all, the cost/benefit didn’t line up for me. Also, my info is more than a decade old so technology may have improved.

    Might I suggest a simpler solution…


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  4. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
    1,212
    Los Angeles
    The problem with scrape guards for our cars is that the bumper they're mounted to is made of fiberglass, not plastic. There is no give. All you're doing is creating less space between the ground and cracking your bumper.
     
  5. ChoonHound

    ChoonHound Formula 3
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    Good point. ☝
     
  6. radback

    radback Formula Junior
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    Dec 14, 2020
    519
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    I'm already scraping my car and I'm too high for my taste. I need a variable height suspension.

    I saw the ramlift pro system there https://www.ramliftpro.com/
    But it looks there is same issue as aircups to fit them on OEM struts.
    Other thing I don't like about hydraulics: it's messy if there is a leak. Air is not.

    PS: Do you know what switch is used in the second video you posted?

    I don't mind installing a tank and a compressor.
    What do you mean by "proper airbags"? Airstruts are effective for changing height, but what about riding quality?
    I'm not sure they're as good as OEM system...
     
  7. ChoonHound

    ChoonHound Formula 3
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    Air cups and airbags are not the same thing. An air cup is two pieces of aluminum nested inside one another with a seal to keep the air from
    escaping. An air bag (or strut) is made of rubber. The rubber is far more robust. I’ve heard the seal between the cups is prone to failure, but again this was years ago.

    I’d investigate air struts. They sound Ike they’re more up your alley.
     
  8. radback

    radback Formula Junior
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    I know what is aircups. They're made to lift the car just for short time, not to drive with them on up position.
    Perfect for what I'm looking for.

    Airstruts are made to be driven inflated. Problem is if you got control on ride height, you don't have control on "spring rate" as it will rise with the car.
    So if like me you want to drive the car low, you'll get a "mellow drive", except if it is finaly tuned with the maker, like in this example:
     
  9. ChoonHound

    ChoonHound Formula 3
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    It sounds like you’ve made up your mind. I would just confirm that an air cup will be able to raise you the 5cm you’re looking for. That might be more than they can do. I thought it was more like an half that. But again, I haven’t looked into them recently.

    And yeah, with airbags the higher the pressure the higher the car. It’s the opposite of what you want. I think it still works tho. Lots of people run them. Don’t overthink it.
     
  10. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
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  11. radback

    radback Formula Junior
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    I know Chris car. Unfortunately he's not always replying to private message. ;)
    The best for me would be to try a "bagged" car to decide, but I don't know one here.

    Still, I think coilover+ aircup is the best solution for my needs.Just need to figure out how to fit it on a 355.
    I guess the only way is to get aftermarket coilovers with narrow springs, but I'm not even sure there's enough room at the front to fit the cups (smallest are 110mm) ...
     
  12. OCKlasse

    OCKlasse Formula Junior
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    Your best bet is to do what I have done. KW HLS. It might be able to be utilized in conjunction with factory coilovers, but I’m on Nitrons.

    My car is very low, and I never have issues getting in and out of places now. Although, I remember in France those large bumps going in and out of villages. Those things are pretty big. You’d have to take those very slowly.


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  13. radback

    radback Formula Junior
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    Very nice. This is exactly what I want!
    I'm in contact with a local suspension shop to modify the stock coil overs to accept narrow springs.
    I'm sure the KW HLS is the best system but very expensive.
    If I can get the same function with aircups for 1/4 of the price that's very tempting.
     
  14. User-C3

    User-C3 Karting

    Aug 29, 2018
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    Trevor
    I believe there is a similar product like the air cups but in a hydraulic form. Might be better for actual coil over performance regardless the cup height setting. Either way a good idea.
     
  15. ChoonHound

    ChoonHound Formula 3
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  16. radback

    radback Formula Junior
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    Thanks but JRI is very expensive too.
    And I prefer to have air than hydraulic on my car. Less messy if there is a leak.

    I was set to modify my OEM coilovers to fit the aircups, but I'm having a second sight after exchanging few messages with an air ride specialist.

    You can adjust airbag "spring rate" during install. I wasn't aware of that.
    So airstruts stiffness can be adjusted by just lowerering or raising the lower mount of the bag. This way, you can set the pressure you want for the same ride height desired.
    For coilovers, moving the mount will change the ride height, but if you want to adjust the stiffness of the ride you'll have to change the springs.
    One point for airstruts.
     
  17. radback

    radback Formula Junior
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    I'm still searching for a variable height system to fit on my car.

    Right now, I'm back on the aircups system, but still wondering if I'll use the modified OEM shocks or buy a set of coilovers.
    I like the idea to keep the original active suspension but I'm not sure it will be able to receive narrow springs and small cups.

    Someone told me aircups will ride badly, but I don't see how it could interfere in low position? (I understand high position is just for obstacles and not made to be driven like this)
     
  18. ChoonHound

    ChoonHound Formula 3
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    What’s your question?
     
  19. OCKlasse

    OCKlasse Formula Junior
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    Hydraulic is the best option to not interfere with drivability. Air will compress, no way around that. If you're just using it to lift over obstacles then you're fine. If you're looking to drive with it lifted, then yes, you will interfere with the suspension damping.
     
  20. ChoonHound

    ChoonHound Formula 3
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    This guy seems to want something that doesn’t exist - a “cup style” lift system that will fit his narrow 355 springs. Not sure why he thinks reposting will change that. Buy some aftermarket coil overs… or don’t.
     
  21. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    My F355 is at factory ride height and I still scrap the bottom on roads down here in Texas.
    I still have to approach every curb as it it was a shredder monster.
    I have to dive in and out of every speed bump.

    I would hate to see what kind of carnage would ensue on the roads in West Virginia.
     
  22. radback

    radback Formula Junior
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    #22 radback, Mar 6, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
    Yes this is my goal.
    So I really don't see how it could be a bad choice. Some says it could trouble the preload...

    Mitch, I should really make a video of the streets around here; speed bumps are monster size and here every 20 meters. A nightmare!
     
  23. OCKlasse

    OCKlasse Formula Junior
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    DM on Instagram my friend @_lowform_. He built his own pneumatic cup kit on all four corners for his F430. Pick his brain a bit.
     
  24. radback

    radback Formula Junior
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    OK thanks :)
     
  25. Odeezy

    Odeezy Rookie
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    Jason O'Dell
    Hey! did you have KW build a custom set for you? I can't seem to get them on their site - it keeps showing the Maranello when I choose any 97,98 Ferrari. Thx! Your car has the perfect ride height! How's the ride on bumpy roads? Stiff or pretty compliant?
     

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