low turbo boost on 308 ... parts on ebay also?

i just bought the complete setup to put it on my '78 308. It's said the system is designed to be put on a stock engine with only 5-6 psi pressure.

As the set will only arrive in a couple of months ( i made a cheap transport arangement) I cannot tell yu anything more.

 

if you drop the compression, how do you think the car will perform in non-boost situations?
these engines are different than others because they dont start making power until 5k+ rpm. so you kinda need the compression to get the motor to where it makes power efficiently. we usually associate turbo motors to diesel trucks that are ALL low end torque and rarely rev above 3500rpm, so the less compression, the more air you can squeeze in.

your 8.8 compression is lower than mine and i have a Norwood build. that wouldnt deter me if i were you. however he rebuilt my entire motor and it can definitely handle the extra power!!

i would be more concerned about injector size, a nice BIG injector is the way to make power with the higher compression, turbo motor.

the old Amerispec modded cars came with a similar exhaust system. but i have never seen one of those cars(they had carburators like those pace car trans ams from the early eighties). i have also seen kits on ebay that were incredibly expensive for a couple of bent exhaust tubes! i am sure any muffler shop can do the same for a fraction of the cost.

anyway, if you can get the header from Norwood, that is the way to go! the turbo will be as close to the heads as possible and without the intercooler, it is in a position where you get a short straight shot to the intake. also with the lower boost setting, it wont work hard at all. so you'll nver suffer the turbo lag or throttle response issues that other turbo cars suffer from. your race car will have better drivability than most street cars! good luck!
i just added a methane intercooler(just an injector) to my ride. i will do a write up on it soon.

 

I think you'll be ok with the 10.5 for 5 psi but I'd add an intercooler above that with your compression/combustion chamber.

With a small ballbearing turbo sized for 5-6 psi lag won't be much of a problem I wouldn't think. You can either buy the pipes on ebay or just make something....it can't be very complicated. I think would try to mount the turbo as close to the front header as possible since it's already the longest and add most of the new length to the rear header. Wrapping the headers to keep the heat in so the energy stays up would probably be good too.

The sim software I have can't tell you about detonation really....it gives a cylinder pressure but you have to know about your engine to turn that into detonation info. It does has quite a few turbos loaded so if you know what you're thinking about I can probably check it for you.

 

12:1 is too high....now that I think about it dion't you already havethe timing pulled back for pump gas? 8.8:1 (which is optimistic and actual is probably 1/2 a point or so lower) is pretty low so 8 or 10 psi is probably ok before you need need an intercooler. Ideally you want to be around 10:1 I think.

 

i think it is 9.5:1 but not positive.

12:1 is alot ---but i am also sure your running race fuel. which makes all the difference

on street gas, i and am runnibg 7psi boost.
i also have not dialed in the methane yet.
@ a lil over 10:1 AF ratio, i have yet to see the egt go above 900*f so i can probably raise the boost for more power without the meth. - i love DFI!!!

30# injectors are good for 400+hp, but i would go to a 60# or bigger with the turbo, just an opinion as your injector will determine your engines ceiling as far as making power

....oh yeah, big injectors + boost means ALOT of fuel so a bigger pump or a booster pump would be required, but i am sure your already there

 

I looked at this too - not interested, just curiosity. The ones I looked at on eBay all had a front mount intercooler. I could easily find a place to mount that and go to sucker fans... but how does one plumb this from the front to the rear of the car?? Short of going through the passenger compartment... hang it out the bottom?

Just curious?

Rick

 

Up the rocker panels along with the AC and brake booster lines is the cleanest way I think and what I did when I was running an intercooler.

 

on my daily driver, I am running 12psi boost with a comp ratio of 8.8:1, I have to use 98ron fuel as a min, the AFR is 14.7, at full boost the effective comp ratio goes to 15.98:1,
for an engine that starts with 12:1 @6psi it would be 16.9:1
I have a large intercooler on my car and would strongly suggest the use of one at the high effective comp ratios that is mentioned

 

nice to learn: (how) did you adjust your ignition?

 

a 14.7:1 a/f ratio is for a normally aspirated engine and is WAY too lean for a turbocharged application!

i would lower it to 12:1 or lower immediately!!


this was copied from the garrett website:
Leaner AFR results in higher temperatures as the mixture is combusted. Generally, normally-aspirated spark-ignition (SI) gasoline engines produce maximum power just slightly rich of stoichiometric. However, in practice it is kept between 12:1 and 13:1 in order to keep exhaust gas temperatures in check and to account for variances in fuel quality. This is a realistic full-load AFR on a normally-aspirated engine but can be dangerously lean with a highly-boosted engine.

Let's take a closer look. As the air-fuel mixture is ignited by the spark plug, a flame front propagates from the spark plug. The now-burning mixture raises the cylinder pressure and temperature, peaking at some point in the combustion process.

The turbocharger increases the density of the air resulting in a denser mixture. The denser mixture raises the peak cylinder pressure, therefore increasing the probability of knock. As the AFR is leaned out, the temperature of the burning gases increases, which also increases the probability of knock. This is why it is imperative to run richer AFR on a boosted engine at full load. Doing so will reduce the likelihood of knock, and will also keep temperatures under control.

There are actually three ways to reduce the probability of knock at full load on a turbocharged engine: reduce boost, adjust the AFR to richer mixture, and retard ignition timing. These three parameters need to be optimized together to yield the highest reliable power.

 

Where did you get this info? I went lean at 7 psi with 30lb injectors far lower than 400hp. Bob Norwood and James Patterson than put in 42 lb injectors which are plenty for 400 hp. I have more than enough fuel with 42lb @ 14psi. In fact I have enough fuel for 18psi but due to potential valve float at 18 psi, the car was tuned to a very streetbale and driveable 14psi. Approaching 18 psi it woud be wise to put in stiffer valve springs. I think induction temperature will limit your ceiling for making power in turbo applications not injector size.

 

Your Magyver you can build a nuclear bomb out of ballbearings. I have seen your work. You can modify your exhaust easily in a few hours with your prowess for fabrication. My previous motor had stock pistons 9.0:1 and ran 7 psi with no intercooler. New motor has JE 9.0:1 pistons with high temp coating and teflon coated skirts with oversized pins. A Spearco intercooler is easy to fabricate and fit with your skills. I think a roadtrip is in order young man! I would go with this turbo from turbonetics. 60-1, HIFI P/ .81 /OC/DRY/ C. S. Pulls hard from 3000 rpm to redline. Boost it! You will love it!

Cheers

 

I have had the ecu adjusted via a flash tuner and run 305rwkws (409rwhp)
sorry 328turbo you are correct, I had a look in my tuning records and I am running 12:1 going down to 11.9:1 at wot
here is a pic of my daily driver

 

I will post some pics tomorrow, ran underneath and flush mounted. Aerodynamically tested at 160 mph! Rear mount air/water intercooler and heat exchanger in the front. Very little plumbing from turbo to intercooler to engine= less lag. Marine pump mounted in the left front fender with filler tube. Wired to ignition. works great.

James Patterson at Norwood Perfomance takes all the credit!

Cheers
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quit being so humble Sean you could put this together in your sleep.

you could easily fab a collector together after the manifolds and put in a turbo that direct feeds to the the intake. here's a great place for parts: http://www.spdexhaust.com/ they actually supply to burns as well. and I know you can mill out a flange if needed.

a great water pump for inter-coolers is the bosch unit ford used on the lightning trucks, small and high volume. I used that on the supercharged 328 with a small trans flat fan/cooler for the exchange. however under 9~10psi it's not always needed. helps though if you can fit it all in.

recently a lot of the tuners are putting turbos in the mid/rear of the chassis and feeding it back to the front, with no noticeable difference to the traditional method.

 

flow charts are available from just about any fuel injector retailer or manufacturer. they are all over the internet. as far as your car running lean, there are many variables that come into play, normally aspirated v. forced induction, duty cycle, fuel qualiity, volume, timing, etc.,etc.

i am new to turbo charged Ferraris, but i have been racing turbo/sfi grand nationals and t-types for quite some time. ive experimented with many different turbos, intercoolers, and fuel injectors.

the flow charts seem accurate, to give an example:
my GN is set up with 6 x 42# injectors.
i have a 7th fuel injector mounted on top of the t-body(30#)
-NO internal engine mods.
with race gas, chip, and a killer twin bosch fuel pump set-up,
that car hit 119 mph in the 1/4, thats a hair over 500hp
according to the chart, the injector's ceiling is 465-510hp, depending.
tht was with a te-51 turbo. this turbo can push enough air to build up to 585hp

according to the charts however, with the stock injectors(28#) i passed the injector's hp limits(as well as just about every GN owner ive ever known!).
that was also with the 7th inj and dbl fuel pump, but a ta-49 turbo that blows enough air for 525hp.
this car was never dyno'd

big injector+lots of fuel+boost=big power!

w/ 42#inj, your turbo 308 should be tunable to 520-600hp -if you can push the appropriate fuel and air.

to make these #'s work you have to push ALOT of fuel -pressure and volume, and match it with the appropriate airflow.
the tough thing is that as you increase pressure, you lose volume(and vise-versa -just like a garden hose)! the appropriate fuel pump(s) is incredibly important in turbocharged applications.
Norwood added a booster pump to my application to make up the difference(i am sure they did the same for you). however, the GN has a much better set-up.

i dont think inlet temps would be much of a concern with this application(Luckydynes').
id want to keep an eye on exhaust temp.

dont get me wrong, intercoolers help. no question.
they aid in tuning to maximize a turbos potential. however, they can be tricky. in certain situations or scenarios, they can be a detriment. ...and upgrading intercoolers can be expensive and the results may be disappointing. especially when looking at the $$$ factor.

but your power is and will always be your fuel.
Ford 42#'s are about $200 for a set of 8, cant beat that!

hey LuckyD, i hope i didnt stray too far from your original topic!

 

Not on a QV or 328. The way the heads are flowed the the cams selected a lot of air goes out the exhaust when you add boost and it takes a lot of fuel with it. My QV was making right about 540 crank hp and I needed 55# injectors with the fuel pressure cranked up to 60 psi running 85% Duty cycle to do it. N ow, the air flow chart for the blower said I was pumping about 800hp of air....and that matches the fuel flow but not the result.

 

this is why fchat is a great page!

 

after opening her up, ive definitely shot flames out on the decel before!

 

I will let you know when she is up and running. I am very close, just need to flush and bleed the brakes, oil change, change coolant and replace all of the injector seals. It seems one of them dried up after sitting and when i turned on the key i got dunked with 100 octane down below. Good thing i caught it! I will replace all of them just to be safe.

As far as igntion advance i will check the old Haltech program on the very old "dos" laptop that came with the car. It still has the original Norwood programming on it.

Cheers