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458 Lowering epic

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Ianjoub, May 16, 2020.

  1. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    I am still not done.

    I checked and recorded my alignment numbers. I measured my ride height from the ground to bottom of the fender in the center of the wheel arch.

    The rear shocks came out easily, not much in the way. I only had to remove the wheel.

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    I took a measurement at an arbitrary point to get a spring compression length.

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    I installed the new spring and guessed at a compression length. I went 1 3/4" shorter than stock.

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  3. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
  4. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    The fronts were shorter than the rears

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    I went 1 3/4" shorter on these as well and reinstalled

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    All that work and the car ended up at the same ride height. I didn't bother to recheck the alignment as I knew I was going to have to go back in.

    The car did handle much better. I liked the different spring rate or progressivism, whichever way the 'lowering spring' was designed.

    SO another day and back in. I lengthened the compressed spring length by 2 1/2 inches, or about 3/4" longer than the stock springs started.
     
  5. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    The car is now 'slammed'. I did put on my matte black wheels as well.

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    Needless to say, it rode like crap. The alignment would need to be done as there is way too much negative camber on the rear wheels. I didn't bother though as I will be back in doing another spring adjustment. I am going to go with the stock compressed length and hoping that will get me where I want to be.

    I guess I should have started there, hindsight being 20/20 and all. When I get the ride height I am after, I will do the alignment.
     
  6. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
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  8. Mighty Joe

    Mighty Joe Formula 3

    Sep 3, 2010
    1,111
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Looks great....
     
  9. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    Thank you for that, but it HAS to come up 3/4" or so. The ride quality/handling is crap.

    I do think the wheel arch looks stupid with it that low. It is just the wrong shape/size to be aesthetically pleasing to my eye.
     
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  10. Mighty Joe

    Mighty Joe Formula 3

    Sep 3, 2010
    1,111
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    I trust your judgement. I guess seeing it in person makes the difference! Either way, its still a beautiful car!!
     
  11. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    I got my other wheels back from powdercoat. Silver turned into gloss black, shod with a new set of PS4S's. Incidentally, all 4 were bent/ had flat spots. They got straightened as well.

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  13. Smiley

    Smiley Rookie

    Dec 1, 2015
    23
    Did you have any drama loosening the rear shock purchases (bit the spring sits on)
    I managed to loosen the smaller bottom one no problems, but the large one is seized solid, tried most usual methods, didn’t really want to risk heating it, just wondered if yours were difficult and if you had any tips
    Thanks
     
  14. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    Not sure which piece you are referring to. My impact is 1190 ft. lbs. of torque for removing bolts. They will back out or break off, but they will! If you are referring to the spring collar and lock nut, then no. They needed a good whack with a hammer and chisel, but came loose.

    All of the threads looked fine for all nuts, bolts, and collars. There was no corrosion and no stress.
     
  15. Smiley

    Smiley Rookie

    Dec 1, 2015
    23

    Hi
    Thanks, yes it’s the spring collars, I didn’t explain it very well, I guess I’ve just got unlucky that mine are seized up. I’ve seen another post where someone had the same issue and had to cut them off! Was hoping for some magical solution....
    thanks anyway
     
  16. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    They won't be seized, but they are tight. I used a 3 lb sledge hammer and a good sized chisel while in a vice. The chisel fits the notches and won't mar the collars if you get it square before striking. It does take a good hit or 3 to free them. I clean the threads with copious amounts of brake cleaner and a brush if necessary. Then lube the threads well with a light oil such as WD-40. I don't use penetrating oil.

    As a qualifier, I have rebuilt hundreds of rear monoshocks on motorcycles including disassembly and revalving. I have a nitrogen bottle and various fittings to recharge them. I consider myself quite qualified.
     
  17. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
  18. Smiley

    Smiley Rookie

    Dec 1, 2015
    23
    Hi
    I have been using the method you describe, and initially found the actual threaded sleeve that the collar is attached to started to turn on the actual shock absorber, basically the whole lot turned and not the collar turning on the threads, I then held the sleeve in the vice and only got the collar to move a couple of millimetres, I did It several times back and forth, but it never loosened up, so not wanting to damage anything I gave up, frustrating as I wanted to fit novitec springs. I just didn’t want to hit it even harder as I was hitting it pretty hard with a lump hammer without any real movement.

    I’ve tried plenty of penetrating oil, and I’m mechanically minded and have done most jobs on cars over the years, so I’d say I’m not a novice, but the force needed to gain any movement certainly seems to be excessive and at the point where I fear I’ll either damage the threads or shock absorber if I just use more force... the parts are too expensive to mess up.....
     
  19. Smiley

    Smiley Rookie

    Dec 1, 2015
    23
    i should just add the penetrating oil I used was WD40
     
  20. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    Yes, ok.

    Use a metal hammer, not a dead blow hammer. You were almost there if you got 2-3mm. Don't go back and forth, just loosen. Yes, on these shocks, you need to have the threaded sleeve part in the vice, not on the threaded part of course.
     
  21. Smiley

    Smiley Rookie

    Dec 1, 2015
    23

    Maybe I’ll give it another go, it just felt that after that few millimetres of movement it wouldn’t go any further, Hence why I tried back and forward.
    The continual hitting was starting to spread the edge of the collar right where I was hitting it, I tried different contact points to avoid damaging one part too much.

    it’s just the fear of ending up damaging the shock too much in the process...

    One garage who I asked to quote for the job did mention them seizing or the threads getting damaged whilst trying to remove,
     
  22. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    That happens. Just file it smooth afterwards. It is quick and easy on the aluminum collar.

    I have taken apart 10 year old shocks on dirt bikes that have been neglected and abused. I have taken apart 10 year old street bike shocks that have seen way too much purple power / simple green that has etched the aluminum. You saw the pics of those mud truck shocks. They have all come apart with no damage to the threads.
     
  23. Smiley

    Smiley Rookie

    Dec 1, 2015
    23
    Yes I did file it back so it looked as it should.
    I’ll have to get braver with the hammer......
     
  24. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
    938
    Tampa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    When adjusting the ride height you need to measure from the frame not the fenders. Fenders are not exact. Also you need to put the car on scales with driver weight and do final adjustment to corner balance the car out.

    Official Ferrari 458 ride height info is as follows:
    F: 139.4mm
    R: 165.8mm

    This is measured at the 4 frame corners at the casting hole. Both are +/- 5mm

    Personally I would go 15mm lower than stock, keep the factory rake and for street use keep the factory alignment specs. For some track and auto cross use I would keep factory rake and toe and add (depending on tires, track, driver preference and skill level) camber. Some dial back the front toe some so the car is not so "dirty" at turn in.
     
  25. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    I know this is just your opinion, so don't take this personally, but:

    The factory alignment SUCKS!

    The car wanders and feels unstable at high speed. I'll correct that with alignment, though it may take several tries.

    Going 180 on 2 lanes of a flat, straight, empty highway and I am concerned about keeping it on the pavement??? No thanks, I'll fix that issue.
     
  26. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
    938
    Tampa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I absolutely agree... but I never said stock alignment is the only way...but where I live in Florida there is really no where to go 180mph (legally) and not run up on cars on the highway...google Radomin Delgado Miami for example!!!...not even at a Daytona track event can you get to 180mph.... so around town like 99% of these guys on the forum, doing stock alignment specs works plus a lot of them like the quicker steering feel....it also works for me at an autocross but not as great at a track event.

    However I will decrease the front toe out specs a little for my personal feel and use. This will make the car less "darty" like I mentioned in my original post. I did say these specs are somewhat personal depending on the tires, track, driver feel and driver skill.
     
  27. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    733
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    Come up US19 north of Weeki Wachee. It is straight, flat, and empty much of the time. :D
     
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  28. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
    938
    Tampa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Humm ok..I am not far...I am off US19 New PORT RICHEY/Palm Harbor area.
     

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