lowly questions for a racing newbie | FerrariChat

lowly questions for a racing newbie

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by KNanthrup, Apr 30, 2004.

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  1. KNanthrup

    KNanthrup Karting

    Jan 14, 2004
    235
    Issaquah, WA
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Hey guys-

    I'm looking for some education here as a newbie on racing. (puts flamesuit on) I constantly get F1, GrandPrix, CART, etc. racing mixed up and I feel horrible about it. I come here in hopes that maybe some of you kind folk out there could give me a little rundown on the differences between these race types and maybe some more similar racing types that I should know about (not necessarily those mentioned in specific) so that I do not confuse them anymore. I love racing, however I just recently got into it so I certainly need to gain some knowledge to save myself from embarrassment :) My friend and I have plans to attent this years USGP race in June, I am quite excited!

    Thanks in advance guys, sorry for the newbie question. :)
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,368
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    AJ is IRL
    Mario is CART (OWRS)
    Schumi is F1

    That's it for Lesson 1. Don't want to go too fast!

    Obviously the three major series are based upon undividual design specs, resulting in various configurations.

    Brand loyalty determines which series you're most interested in, I suppose.
    Hint: The prancing pony is in Formula 1, and some years sports cars.
     
  3. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Apr 3, 2001
    11,238
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Randy
    Indy Race in June? That would be F1 at the US Grand Prix.

    IndyCar = open wheeled cars going around and around in circle tracks
    CART = might not be around much longer, so no need to get this one confused with F1 or IndyCar.
    F1 = lots of info here and there, but www.formula1.com will help you out with some of it, as well as www.dailyf1.com
     
  4. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,710
    IndyCar = RPM limited to ?11,000 RPMs? by ECU mandated by rules
    CART = RPM limited to 12,500 RPMs due to common engine throughout series
    F1 = stress limited at 18,500 RPMs due to materials science state of the art
     
  5. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    Psst. Ze Williams engine spun to nearly 20k rpm in qual trim. Psst.
     
  6. KNanthrup

    KNanthrup Karting

    Jan 14, 2004
    235
    Issaquah, WA
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    DOH! I did it already!! arghh! lol :)

    Thanks guys, that definitely helps. But now how can you tell the difference in appearance? Aren't they all open wheeled?
     
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,710
    Psst: that was a BMW engine, and that was before the one engine per weekend rule.
     
  8. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Apr 3, 2001
    11,238
    Austin, TX
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    Randy
    #8 Schatten, Apr 30, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. KNanthrup

    KNanthrup Karting

    Jan 14, 2004
    235
    Issaquah, WA
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Perfect. That really helps a lot, I appreciate it!!

    these are the only 3 that are similar though, correct?
     
  10. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    pssssssssst. I know. Psssst.
     
  11. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    37,965
    houston/geneva
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    Ross
    grooved tires vs slicks.
    air intakes instead of just roll over bars.
    if you actually see them in person there is a big difference in size, and sound.
     
  12. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    49,564
    @ the wheel
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    Andreas
    The yellow car is CART (replicar), the red/silver is F1 from 91, the silver one is a IRL (replicar).

    CART: Turbos, street, road and oval courses, fast and heavy
    F1: Normally aspirated only, street and road courses, fast and nimble
    IRL: Normally aspirated only, ovals only, fast
     
  13. DMC

    DMC Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2002
    2,385
    WI/IL
    Full Name:
    Dean
    Those are the 3 "major" series (although IRL being a major series is debatable ;) ). There are a lot of "lower" formula in open wheel that are basically training ground for the higher formula. For example, the route to a Champ Car ride would be karts, Barber Dodge Pro Series (similar to a Formula Ford, open wheel, small wings, 4 cylinder production-based engine, very light), Toyota Atlantic (open wheel, wings, 4 cylinder engine but much more powerful), then Champ Car.

    For Formula 1, F 3000 is the "training" series.

    Schatten, don't confuse him. IRL's going to go away, not Champ Car. :D
     
  14. pizzadude

    pizzadude Formula 3

    Feb 20, 2001
    1,274
    Indianapolis, IN
    The bottom two cars are both from CART.
     
  15. KNanthrup

    KNanthrup Karting

    Jan 14, 2004
    235
    Issaquah, WA
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Thanks guys!!!

    I think this has really given me a step in the right direction. To me the most distunguishing features (of F1) are the straighter (longer) nose and the grooved tires (not always grooved?). It seems you can tell by the air intakes behind the cockpit as well except that CART and IRL picture look like they have them too. Also F1 appears to be much larger to me from the looks of it, is this correct?
     
  16. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Apr 3, 2001
    11,238
    Austin, TX
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    Randy
    the noses started to increase height in F1 in the early 90's. Benneton's car was one of the first (I'm sure I'll be corrected on this one) to do this, soon after, everyone else followed. Schumi drove for B. at that time as well.

    The F1 cars are *much* smaller in comparison side by side to champ/IRL cars. Even looking at them up close, you can see where they can squeeze in well over 200million in development on these cars, compared to the champ cars. But the rules and regulations for champ cars is to keep costs down. Costs is only a recent development in consideration in F1 - and it will take a few years before cost cutting for teams will come into play. One of the first rules that helps costs in F1 is the single engine in a weekend rule. While R&D must push an engine to last that long, it helps the other teams as well.

    The other main differences in the F1 & CART/IRL/other races is the standing start. Everyone else has a moving start. Just like those sit-down NASCAR or other racing games in gamerooms. In F1, there's a formation lap and then the cars come around for a standing start. It's the drag race start where the lights turn on 'red' ... 'red'.. 'red' and then they dissapear within an undetermined amount of time, but typically within .5 to 1.5 seconds. Race rules prohibit races from exceeding 2 hours in length, but that really hasn't been a problem in the last few years. The grooved tires are in F1 and has been for several years as well. I cannot remember when they implimented that rule, but it has only been a handful of years (5 or 6?). That is a rule that officials had hoped would slow down the cars. Afterall, that is why rules are made in F1 - to slow them down, and then to make them safe by slowing them down or by implimenting items such as the HANS device.

    btw, thanks for the correction, just did a few quick google searches for images for CART/IRL. I have lost interest in CART/IRL ever since the big split and haven't payed much attention since.
     
  17. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
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    If you want to distinguish by the looks of the cars, take a close look at the three pictures I posted (yours truly btw): The CART car is flat behind the roll bar because that is where the turbo's wastegate is located. The IRL car has a HUGE air intake above the roll bar, the F1 cars (then and now) are more restricted in the air intake regulations so it is smaller.

    Also the front wings are interesting: Ther IRL car running only on ovals has very small front wings. CART could have either, the small ones or the snow shovel a la F1. The CART car in my pics actually has a road course configuration with a big front wing, unusual for an oval (this is the former Chicago Speedway), but this was a day for rookies, so they wanted maximum downforce.

    The F1 car is from 91 and looks different from today's F1 cars. But therein lies my point: F1 is about constant development of the cars. An IRL or CART car might look the same from season to season, while the F1 cars constantly evolve (in all fairness there was also a huge regulations change in F1 after 94, so that caused a lot of the different look). However whether a F1 car has a high or low nose is insignificant as it can change from race to race.
     
  18. UroTrash

    UroTrash Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 20, 2004
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    Clifford Gunboat
    Forgive me if I missed this somewhere up above, but why in the world does F1 spec grooved tires?
     
  19. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,765
    Nova Scotia Canada
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    Neil
    They added that rule a few years ago, to slow the cars down. The same with making the car much more narrow. That raises the centre of gravity, making it a little tougher to carry as much speed through the turns.
     
  20. UroTrash

    UroTrash Four Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Jan 20, 2004
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    Clifford Gunboat

    thanks.
     
  21. F40Lover

    F40Lover Karting

    Mar 28, 2004
    203
    The Ferrari of RB was shown to go to 19000 AFTER the one engine rule in the last F1 race.
     

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