Sorry Emilio but this sounds to me like a case of the band playing whilst the Titanic sinks. You still haven't addressed the fact that you offered the well-known image featuring Armin Johl's 1121026 to assert that 1121102 had Bravo wheels at new, let's not gloss over this fact, again, the the inclusion of 1121026's image in 1121102's history is either a careless mistake, or intentionally done to convince the uninitiated that the S2 1102 is an S1 when it is in fact an S2, the identity switch if accepted at point of sale is pure fraud. Either way the notion that 1102 had Bravo wheels at new is without any basis whatsoever, and the use of an image of another car effectively underscores not only that fact, but the attempt to subvert reality. Moving along to your new assertions: I have seen multiple Countachs replace Campagnolos with Ozzetas when the latter became available, wheels are often swapped or upgraded for many many reasons as you yourself and others you know have done, so the fact that the car now wears Ozettas proves exactly nothing. Many LP400S S2 were delivered with Vitaloni Turbos and still have them on, the period image of 1102 proves it had Vitaloni Turbos nearly new. Only makes no sense if you want the verdict to be a certain result regardless of the evidence. FWIW the expression 'Moody wing' as it relates to the Countach refers to the early wings without end-plates. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Joe, i have 0.0 personal interest in sayng the car is an S1 since is not mine or in the family i do not write this for ANY kind of promotional for the 1102 car i like to investigate on these cars history as many others do (Victor, Marcel, etc...) what does make an S1? bravos i think the S1/S2 split is still not 100% perfect: 1098 is an S1? i doubt so since car seems to be born with dish wheels i still have some doubts 1102 it was born with dish campagnolo wheels...the pic you posted with the skirts car has the OZ wheels...you can see it clearly by valve position about the register pic: you are right, i did not check it well, my fault i admit when i am wrong about the wheels: i could be right..most of the LP400S with all wheels set changed to full OZ wheels were cars born with bravos on S2 and S3 when a wheel broke or car had an accident usually they only changed 1 or 2 wheels, simply because people did not care and mostly did not knew they were different same for the 5000s and QV cars so i had seen many cars with mismatching wheels (OZ-Campagnolo) back then people hardly realized the difference btw S2-S3 campagnolos and OZ ...all dish wheels=all the same. please note still today many do not know the difference: guy at Top Motor has a Campagnolo on his QV and did not knew it was different from the OZ he works on these cars since...30 years? this tell us a lot abotu the wing: same wing on your ex red S1 is on the auction car...the side plates were added at a later time if you remember many years ago i made a thread on all wings variations https://lamborghinichat.com/forum/threads/countach-wings-thread.241029/ and this kind of wing ( "U" hole to adjust) came originally without side plates
the final word on 1102 we can say when we have old pics of the car in its original form (no sideskirt, no turbo mirrors, no OZ wheels) for the moment we are still studying, without studyng we would not have a lot of the infos now available on the net on all countach variations i like doing research - research is good
S1 wheels is a sensitive yet interesting topic. The line was drawn at 1121100 as we did observe this car to be the last (or at least the highest VIN) to use them. I wonder if 1121098 was born with concave wheels rather than Bravo's. Same for 1121074 here below, just one year old circa 1980 / 1981... Image Unavailable, Please Login
I fully support Emilio's and Victor's Statement, these are 40+ year old cars which faced a lot of changes, that was simpy the mood in the famous eighties. The wing might have mislead the people with the special end plates, normally one owner did something, others found it cool and copied. Nobody knows how many S1 got the bravos exchanged against newer ones to let the car look more modern or vice-versa because the owner liked the bravo look better than the newer version he had on his S2-QV. For example 1148 has now Bravos installed and no more flag mirrors.
Just to add that when I saw it the rear wing endplates seemed to me to have different screws across the three that held the endplate on. Maybe a clue that it was added later, though of course not definitive. The description did say that the wing was carbon, and added some time after, but I don't know if that was the case. Personally, I doubt that a little.
1102 had for sure no carbon wing when I saw her in 2002, still in red. The car sold now in 2021 seems to have different end plates, looks like they got changed at the repaint. It's also completely set wrongly for a wing, the end plates should be horizontal. From my archive I have pictures dated 2008 which show this car black and also the dashboard done badly with leather instead of the original mouse hair she still had in 2002.
Agreed, and along those lines, a little research would have confirmed to you that the image you offered as proof that 1102 was born with Bravo wheels was not 1102 at all, but in fact 1026, and I think this blatant misrepresentation is what had me concerned, otherwise, like you, I have no interest one way or another in 1102. As soon as some owners of Bravo-wheeled cars up to 1100 saw the smooth wheels as early as 1980, they wanted them. I spoke to Elvidio Grande of Auto Palace Pittsburgh personally [I knew him since I purchased 1120192 from him] and he confirmed to me that he put the smooth wheels on 1121098, I did my research as we were a buyer for that million-dollar car and simply got outbid.
See my comments about 1121098's wheels in my post above, they were replaced nearly new by the smooth "better" wheels simply because everyone one wanted the latest & greatest as soon as they were available, that was the vogue of the time and its lead to some confusion today, I established this via the man who sold the car when I did my research as a potential buyer in the auction.
In the case of 1121098, this was done for a very simple financially-motivated sales reason. Elvidio Grande of Auto Palace Pitsburgh imported the car on February the 26th 1980, but it stayed in his possession on his showroom floor for over a year, during which time in order to help him sell the car, he fitted it with the 'new' Countach wheels which he secured from Lamborghini's parts department as a dealer, and he finally sold the car as a 'new' Countach on March the 17th 1981.
good we can all agree we need older pics of 1102 to see what wheels it had when new would be interesting to have some pics of 1104 to...this car i miss from my personal register of 4 liter countach
yes the dash has been badly redone in leather...sadly the interior had been also "restored" with painting seats tunnel ... the door panels are still original and not painted like the rest of leather you could clearly see the difference in color and finish with panels and seats still a nice car to start with a resto Image Unavailable, Please Login
LP400S #1121338 Verde Abete Metallizzato with Champagne interior. This was back in 1981 when that gorgeous Countach arrived in Australia... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Nice post! S3 1338 is a particularly nice livery, one of my favorites, original Verde Abete with gold wheels and gold pin-striping on the body. The initial sales Ad for GT Lamborghini Distributors Pty in Melbourne said: "Lamborghini Countach S Only new one available in Australia. Dark green all over with complimentary cream leather cockpit. Ultimate investment potential for the brave millionaire. POA"
You can just make out the gold pin-striping on the body crease line to compliment the gold wheels on 1338. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I know of at least one other S2 (1121260) with 4 OZ replacement wheels. And the originals were of course smooth dish Campagnolo. Image Unavailable, Please Login
anything is possible.. but the thing is 1121102 we do not have pics of car new whith Campagnolo wheels (bravos or smooth dish ones) only pics with OZ wheels and these are for sure not the original ones add the car is rightly after one car born with bravos...so we still need proof of what was on it when new
Thanks for making the point so aptly. Let's relax and see, the fact the point is being repeatedly made by yourself with erroneous and inconclusive information (the 1026 image and the notion that OZs means a previously Bravos) suggests there is an effort to deem this car an S1 when we know it's an S2, let's see what genuine clear imagery comes up and we'll scrutinize the evidence. Amen brother.
Joe i told i was wrong you did tell the car had dish original wheels in one pic...admit you were wrong to we all make mistakes...the good thing is to recognize when we did we will both wait to see pics of the car when new to finally say it is first S2 or last S1
