SRTMike - good post. Here is the one sentence that I have to comment on: Bernie would be NUTS to cave into Luca's request Bernie may not have a CHOICE but to cave into Luca's request. Just like the financial mess, history repeats itself. In the 80's Enzo Ferrari threatened to leave F1 and go to CART. The FIA thought he was bluffing so when they met with him in Maranello he had the car fired up outside the office windows. The FIA wanted V8's in 1989, but Ferrari wanted the V12 to stay. Guess who won? Luckily for us, we got to hear the V12 until 1995........... I'm seeing history repeat itself (not with Ferrari going to IRL, but leveraging their power) Kevin S.
Sorry - I meant to say the Enzo had a Ferrai Indy car built and placed outside of his office. This was the Ferrari 637....
I agree Bernie doesn't have a choice, but I think it's the other way around. He has huge interest payments due (it was refinanced and is now significantly larger than the amount you listed above). How can he give even an additional 10%? F1 already loses $500m a year. They need to get profitable, not more in debt. I don't think that giving more to the teams is a viable option for him. And really, let's face it - Ferrari is not going to leave F1 if Bernie doesn't give them more money. They get more out of F1 than F1 gets from Ferrari, so it would be silly of them to leave. Ferrari is largely what it is today because of being in F1. If they decide to go racing in another series.... what series would that be? Le Mans? Nothing other than F1 is going to give them the ROI they get in F1. The best for Bernie is that the teams work to reduce costs, then they make more $$$, but the show still brings in the same amount, so Bernie makes the same. Luca may have a fair point in the additional travel expenses, although IIRC Bernie assists with travel expenses or perhaps arranges travel that the teams can buy at a huge discount from "book price". I forget how it works exactly but Bernie is tied into it and subsidizes it. The only point I agree with Luca about is no races in N. America. That ought to work itself out, hopefully.
My Issue with Ecclestone is love hate... right now its hate. He is responsible for making F-1 huge in the world and managed the business from a club sport to a first class sporting event and now its entertainment.... I think that was the step too far. if it was truly a sport it would be great. Now Ecclestone is wraped up in making money, fans and races are not the point any more.. and now its getting to where the teams dont matter anymore... its all about finance and money. In my opinion Ferrari is the enabler. if they wanted to leave, they could go to Le Mans, cut their expense hugely, and still make as much in souviner sales etc... I dont think F-1 does anything for them anymore. If Ferrari were in the LeMans series as a factory effort, there would be many more races open and much more money coming into the sport... Not to mention if they wanted to go IRL racing ( I know its a joke, but there ) they would be the totally undisputed 800lb gorilla in the room... As for us... the fans that have followed F-1 for 35 years or more... well we dont matter at all. Not that we really did, but back in the 70's at least you thought you did? in the 80's you could see the drivers if you wanted to, in the 90's it was more expensive to see them but you could, and now its impossible, let alone to get up close to an F-1 car in action. even if you are a guest of Shell, or who ever.. you just get a "tour" and that's about it... all for $5K per person ??? to me that is stupid! I would love F-1 to be like the BPR racing series in the 90's when Group C collapsed... maybe that is what we need to have happen now.
Well my thought was never to have Ferrari go to LeMans etc. But to lead the charge in a breakaway series. The GPMA mentioned it, but that was when Ferrari was not involved. I can't see it happening; but the threat is a bargaining tool. This sport is not too complex for FOTA to sign reasonable agreements with any track. They don't need the FIA or FOM. As Eddie IRvine said earlier this year; they only need a few lawyers to run the thing.... I agree with the above post though; I have a love/hate thing with Bernie. right now it's on the hate side.......... anyhow, just 'bar talk' on a cold winter night.... Kevin
I had a chance at buying that engine type for a project I'm doing...... Or will do....... Someday..... When Alfa got involved with roundy round they basically jacked the valve covers up off the Ferrari engine and rolled it over beneath a set of Alfa valve covers, lowered them, and VIOLA! Parts made from unobtainium. Trick. Now back on topic; F*** Luca Not the horse he road in on.
Bernie is the mean SOB who keeps the inmates of the F1 asylum in line. Without Bernie cracking the whip they would not be able to even agree on seating arrangements for dinner. F1 is an entertainment business with some shrewd shenanigans used to keep it evolving. The bottom line is the number one concern; not history or the 'right way'. Those that come to a different conclusion have invested too much emotionally, in the spectacle... CH
Have no respect for any of them, Luca d', Bernie or Max, but thats OK. None of them has any respect for me either. Every now or then one of them reinforces ones' prejudices against the others and has a minor reduction of infamy.
Uh-Oh! To whatever happens. I hope everyones GREED, doesn't kill F1. I don't think it will come back, if it does. Ciao...Paolo
I don't think the FOTA can forge their own path exclusive of the FIA. The problem is two fold... First of all, Bernie wouldn't just dust off his hands and say "well, that's the end of that then!" and go home... he'd fight to keep F1 alive. He has contracts with all the major tracks, and I am sure after the GPMA thing, there is language in there that precludes the tracks from contracting with competing series. Hence, I doubt FormulaX (just making up a name) would ever be able to have a race at Monaco or Silverstone or Monza or Spa. Now, of course FormulaX could pick up other tracks like North America (Indy/Montreal), but... that brings us to the next complication... the FIA. Second, we all remember (hopefully) the stink Max made when Australia tried to play hardball. His retort was that if Australia wants to overrule FIA decisions in court, then the FIA would have to pull all racing out of Australia. So if Porno Max is on the side of Bernie, then that effectively locks FormulaX out of the entire world, except places that wouldn't care about losing FIA support. For some places that may not matter... places like China, Bahrain, N. America and so on. But for just about all the rest of the tracks, that would be a big deal. It would be civil war in the racing world. Who would attain critical mass first? I have a feeling we would see a situation like CART/IRL where both fought for what they wanted. In the end, I think FormulaX with the FIA can trump Bernie. But I think Bernie + the FIA can trump FormulaX. So whatever 2 got together would beat out the third. Since we know Max is a corrupt scumbag, all Bernie has to do is dangle money in front of his face and he'll jump into his lap and play nice. Then, Bernie just needs to win over someone like Luca... and we know Luca is a scumbag too. Bernie just needs to promise Luca a special deal, a better deal than all the other teams, and Luca would happily sign Ferrari on the line and leave everyone else out in the cold. And since Williams exists for F1 as does McLaren, they would then fall like so many dominoes. And ironically, this is precisely what happened before and Luca pretty much shafted the whole GPMA and screwed everyone else for his own personal gain. Why wouldn't history repeat itself? Contrary to your post above, Ferrari was very much part of the GPMA when they were talking about a breakaway series. They were having votes and adopting charters, then out of the blue Ferrari announced that they had signed the new Concorde agreement. IIRC Bernie gave them some % of the TV money and a one-time payment of around $250mm. The % of the TV money was the largest share of all the teams.... which then put pressure on the teams to all run and talk to Bernie ASAP to get "their share" before it was all given away. I don't see Bernie caving into their demands. So likely this is all bluffing. They ain't going anywhere, and really, I can't see at all why Luca thinks he is entitled to a larger share of the F1 pie. Like you said, bar talk . It will be an interesting brawl for sure. My money is on Bernie. He is way more powerful than Luca.
Yep. Emperor Palpatine versus Anakin Skywalker. Not to nerd out or anything. BE runs the show. He owns MM and everything else.
Doesn't matter. We have certainly 100k fans to fill one stadium as any other country. But that's besides the point: The US is the biggest car market for the manufacturers represented in F1, hence it needs its own race even if that would be in front of empty grandstands (ALMS anybody?). LdM is right, time for Bernie to give up. Moving F1 to Asia is completely idiotic.
His point is this: "It's stays outside [the USA] because apparently we're a country full of rednecks that like to drive in circles in cars made to look like some of the ugliest cars available... made by companies that can't afford to pay their unions because they think they deserve $100k/year to screw on bumpers." Whether you agree or not, his point is crystal clear. And, I happen to agree. By the way . . . I was born and raised in the South, and I take no offence to the comment "redneck." Down here, we know what that means.
As usual you are correct. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=138284621&posted=1#post138284621
Disagree - Luca isn't asking for more money for Ferrari. He's asking for more money for all the teams in fota. This isn't a scenario where your asking your boss for a raise. Everyone in F1 is unhappy with the direction that Bernie has them headed. The deal made with Ferrari was no secret - however the amount , and the comment that Ferrari gets a 'little extra help' has put Bernie in a very bad light. Ferrari's reaction may be very interesting - Italians aren't known to take challenges and embarrasing threats lightly. The 'press officer' comment was pretty low .. This is a true heavyweight fight. Kevin (more bar talk)
Where there is Money there is conflict. F1 is full of money grabbing rats, both are as bad as one another.
In a way it may be a good time for the teams to go in for the kill, to wrestle the grip off Bernie and Porno Max have had on F1 they have raped it for too long.
I'd say Bernie nailed Luca pretty well with the press officer comment - I think that's pretty much exactly what he is. He isn't the CEO of Ferrari, he just likes to horn in on F1's affairs. Luca spends so much time talking to the press and jet setting around the world, that he can't possibly be a "real" CEO. He's a salesman. A PR guy. He's good at it, and he's at the top of his game in that business, but he's still a PR/salesman guy and always will be. As for all the teams looking for more... you could also say that all employees always want more $$ too. I don't know anyone in the world who wouldn't like to make more money. It's not like this situation is alarming and specific to F1, or that it's any different than it was in the past. Bernie has a point. F1 generates X amount of money. The teams get half of that. By participating, they also get exposure which nets them more money, because they get sponsorship money. Ferrari can choose how much money they make (or lose) in F1 based on how much they spend. They don't HAVE to spend the $$ they do on drivers or engineering or whatever - they choose to. As with most things in business, it's dictated by supply and demand. Ferrari like to think they have a larger demand than the supply and they could leave F1 and go elsewhere and be equally as successful (from a business standpoint). They are wrong. The reason the teams are going after Bernie is because since one of the large teams left, they see the supply/demand equation shifting in their favor, and they are baring teeth and going after Bernie with vigor. But Ferrari are not going to leave F1, and Bernie knows it. Neither are McLaren, Williams, etc. All Bernie needs to do is lower costs so the teams make more $$$ and so that new competitors can come into the game, and then he doesn't have to budge one inch on $$ to the teams, and there's not a damn thing Luca will ever do about it.
