Lucas fuel injection

In the late fifties Maserati experimented with a Bosch diesel-style direct fuel injection distributor on the in-line six 250F F1 engine with Dell'orto throttle bodies. The 1967 Cooper Maserati F1 car's V12, how ever, had Lucas mechanical fuel injection with Dell'orto TBs but it was a Mark II competition fuel distributor without vacuum or barometric influence. The same unit used by Ferrari, and many other, racing engines. The passenger car style Lucas fuel distributor, as on the Mistral, was used on marine racing V8s. The vacuum, barometric unit poked out of the front from between the cylinder heads, as on the 5000GT V8 engine.

 

I agree with Ivan that the cars should be kept original and with the fuel injection. I have had four Maserati's with fuel injection and was able to make them all run well. One of the things I do is rebuild the fuel distrubuter with Vitron O rings. They appear to wear better and are resistant to the new gasoline additives. I currently have a Mistral with the dry system on it and it has been a very reliable car for 20 years. The problems I have seen are the Vacuum piston is usually worn and or as the engines wear the engine vacuum drops. Will is right, the easy way to change the mixture is to put a feeler gage between the cam and the little wheels that slide on the cam. Most of any problem is not with the fuel injection or the caburators but other problems with the engine. When the fuel injection is calibrated correctly and the ret of the engine is right, there is no flat spots on acceleration from 700-6000rpm.
The major complaint with the wet system is, fuel in the oil. As soon as the key is turned on the fuel is supplied at 100psi to the Distrubuter. Even with all the seals in excellent shape fuel will pass the seals and leak into the oil. As soon as the engine starts there is a 100psi oil pump to balance the fuel pressure. I have developed a "fix" for this which is to seal up the distrubuter and put a drain in the bottom of it with a tube to a holding tank. I drove a Sebring for 20 years this way and had about a quart of fuel and oil to throw out every 300 miles. Even with the wet system and this minor modification I did not have any fuel in the oil. The dry system has this same drain and returns the fuel to the fuel tank. If anyone is interested contact me off line and I wll send you a copy of the artical.
I have had a set of carbs and manifold for over twenty years but have never been convinced to replace the fuel injection. I also agree the Bosch pump is a very good addition to the system to make long trips less of an adventure. Over all with the four cars I have had I have had more fuel pump failures than any thing else.

 

Hello Gene...

Good to hear from you on this thread... I know we have
met several times at various events, the last being Pismo
or the Grand Canyon, I think.. I know you have a wealth
of technical info and always look forward to hearing it..

I also am interested in the modification of the wet
system... ([email protected])

Mike Demyanovich

 

Hello,
Ivan, first of all, very good idea to start this thread, thanks for that!

In Holland (where I live) is someone called Harm Klijn who is specialized in Lucas fuel injection systems. Got his education at Lucas, has original Hartridge calibrating equipment and can deliver new parts for it, a.o. the injectors which he makes new (Mike D. asked for this)!
His company is called Powerprops, and you can find it at www.powerprops.com.
He is very helpsome, I spoke to him on the phone. In his opinion it is possible to rebuild the LUCAS FI completely AND to have it reliable and he told me he has many customers for them (in the Maserati and Triumph field). His website conains much info, also on the different metering units (wet and dry) for the different cars.

I own two 3500 GTI's, both are 1962.
The first is a good original car, still equiped with the FI, but the engine does need an overhaul. I don't know the exact mileage, but I think it is (very) high (regarding the low compression on some cylinders and the noises of pistons).
And yes, I think there is some gasoline in the oil. However, the high mileage and lack of service on the engine and FI are in my opinion the reasons for this. I'll start rebuilding this engine this year and I will definitely put the FI back on the car, because it is original and because it has higher power and torque than Webers.

The second one is a project car, equiped with a BMW FI (on a BMW engine!) but I will convert this one back to LUCAS FI (on a Maserati engine of course), allready have the main parts for it.

I also am interested in the modification of the wet system... ([email protected]).

Marc Florie

 

Hello,
one more link for an explanation of the different kinds of Metering units used on several Maserati's
http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri135.htm

 

Hi,
I have a Mistral Coupe 3.7 built november 65 (AM109.572) with a "wet" FI system and I am concerned by the problem of the oil contaminated by fuel.

- eogorman, I am interested by your modification ([email protected])

- wildegroot, can you tell us more about the Bosch fuel pump (type and part Nr, location in the car). I only know it's a special high pressure pump.

- Is it possible to convert from a wet system to a dry system?

Thank you, Alain
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The 2 fuel pumps are mounted inside the right front fender (wing) near the firewall/cowl area (scuttle) behind the splash-apron. The pumps are hard to miss once the splash apron is removed as they are giant.

We have not replaced one of those big old pumps with a little Bosch pump in a while and off hand I don't know the Bosch part number. We are a Bosch Service Center but most pumps are listed by application so it would take some sorting to locate the right pump. Before going through all that you might try MIE. They used used to sell the Bosch 100 PSI pump(s) you need and they may still have one or two on the shelf.

The drain line is definitely a good idea. Fuel is a poor lubricant and could conceivably explode in the crankcase.

Good luck,

Wil

 

I agree with every one on the board.

Originality is key!
Inmy case my 62 3500 GTI was converted to carbs a long time ago.
I have the the injection system that goes with the car " WET " stored in my attic.

I looked into putting back the FI on my car and the trouble was more than it's worth.

If anyone needs to put the FI back on the car, get ready to pay around $6000 easy, not including the sending units to be rebuilt or new injectors.
Plus 20 - 30 hours of fine tuning.

Another negative aspect, locating a mechanic that is well educated on the subject and has done a couple before you.

Personally, carbs sounds better : )

 

Hi,
Thank you for your answers.

Does anybody know if it is possible to convert a car from a wet to a dry FI system?
Alain.

 

Yes you can convert

You will need the dry type sending unit.

Make sure you are using the correct setting. Try to stay away from the 4.0 if you are planning on using on a 3500 GTI

Allot of these wet types are for 3.5 and the dry type are for 3.7 and 4.0

There is a way to make a modification to the dry type to match what you need.
If you are using any of the 3.7 or 4.0 with modification to the sending unit your car will not run correctly. Too rich...

Probably a new set of injectors also.

 

I would just ad a drain line to the fuel distributor and hide a catch tank (plastic bottle) somewhere as eogorman did if you really feel the need. I've personally never worried about it too much. If the system is maintained and monitored and if, like with most of these cars it's not driven like a bread delivery van, the wet system should be fine. People used to worry about valve-seat wear with no lead in the gasoline and Miuras without a split-sump conversion. It's really not a big issue when most of these cars don't even accumulate 1,000 miles a year on the odometers.

 

I make new inserts for the lucas injectors.
They are sold to USA, NL, UK, Germany etc
Pressure test these (3.4 bars is best for Maserat/Ferrari)
Also available racing type for higher fuel supply.
In stead of using the shims on the Lucas pump to increase height and thus more fuel.

I also restore the manifolds with lucas for Maserati Mistral, Sebring etc
Ferraris with Lucas is also possible to refurbish to new. New linkage, new injectors etc etc. Concours ready.

PM me for more info

 

Ferrari 330 P4, 312Ps (1968-1973), 512S/512M, 512 BBLM
And some Dino racers (system like Maserari Mistral etc)

 

Sent you a PM

Chris Rose

 

new revised injectors (better then the lucas factory ones!)
"old" injectors can be modified with these new and better inserts.
Banjo bolts & more
Injectors for Maserati, Ferrari (Dino, BBLM, 512S, 312P) and Alfa Romeo (TT33)
Throttle linkage etc
Manifold restoration to concours standard
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for Maserati 5000GT, Mistral, Sebring and 3500GTI & Ferrari's with Lucas
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@tomgt Great works! Is your offer regarding injectors for 3500GTI and Sebring still valid? Please send me answer on PM if you can.

 

Yes. The most capable in the USA for Lucas are https://kinsler.com/Shop/lucas-mechanical/

 

Does anyone have the article which eogorman wrote about?
Maybe somebody have the same fix in his 3500 GT and can write how to do it or tell where and how exactly the drain should be mounted?
Does anyone else have in 3500 gt the dry type sending unit ?