Hi all, It's my first question on this forum but I followed your discussions for a long time. This forum is a real mine of information, surely the better I know. I present myself rapidly: I'm French (but I lived for years in Italy), 57 years, 4 children and 21125, an European, vetroresina (fiberglass), dry sump, initially sold in Italy and born, I think, at the beginning of 1977 (we don't have on European cars the plate you have in America with the manufacturing date). I want to restore, in the rear bonnet, the "wooden" carpeted wall protecting the rear lights (part 39, in table 107 of parts catalog). This wooden structure has been broken in the past. A simple question: what this wooden structure were made from at the origin on a '76/'77 model. On my car, one of them is plywood and the other is "reconstituted wood" (type OSB). I think one of them to be original but... what one? Thanks in advance for your help. Paul PS: please, have pity of non chromosomically English/American-speaking: a lot of your acronisms is beyond any understanding and the main aim of such a forum is sharing ! LOL
PS: please, have pity of non chromosomically English/American-speaking: a lot of your acronisms is beyond any understanding and the main aim of such a forum is sharing ! LOL Don't apologize. Your English is a whole lot better than my French!
Paul, Believe me, your understanding of written English far exceeds that of some Americans who have been here for generations. Keep posting, keep learning. Thanks for sharing your restoration issue. I don't have a definitive answer for you. I wasn't even aware there were any wood parts in 308s. I thought that was the domain of the Brits! All I can offer is OSB (oriented strand board) was developed in 1978 and came into common production in 1980. Modern plywood has been around since the 1800s. Historically speaking, I'd say your parts were probably plywood. Ferrari 308s had wood parts... It's good to learn something new! Rick
Your VIN is in the middle of my cars ....20405....22127....22641. I don't recall any wood in the areas you cite but I can look this evening and report back! I downloaded the parts diagram...I'm thinking it's an aluminum sheet....if so I can make you one here and send it. Welcome!
I know the US cars had different exhaust systems making a smaller trunk necessary. But was this true of vetrorosina cars or were they all deep trunk? Also, it's difficult to imagine wooden car parts above the exhaust. Knowing the OSB was not original, perhaps the plywood was also not original but custom made by a previous owner. Do-it-yourselfers often have tools to work in wood but not in metal so they chose wood where sheet metal should clearly be used.
First of all, thank you for your kind words about my English. - Rick: indeed, OSB is a quite modern product and what is in my car is clearly not OSB but I dont know the English term: in French it is called aggloméré (agglomerated). It is produced mixing, under pressure and heat, little pieces of wood, sawdust and glue (pieces of wood are smaller than the ones in OSB); in fact its a very old and cheap material. Italian and Brits are real cousins: its enough to consider the electrical systems of both - Bubba: yes, Im encircled! - Paul 308: use of plywood (or so, or even cardboard) is classical in then-upholstered or carpeted pieces like door panels, on European cheap cars and, by some aspects, Ferrari are closer to cheap cars than to RR! I didnt know that, due to the different exhaust system, American trunks were smaller than the European ones. And so, panels are perhaps different. I was not speaking of the horizontal part immediately above the exhaust system (really submitted to heat and which is basically a sandwich of aluminium and other insulating materials) but the vertical parts immediately behind the lights. Here, there is no problem of heat but I agree: this wooden structure could result of a previous scrupleless DIYselfer. In any case, thanks for your help in my Graal quest (a little bit exaggerated, no?). Paul
Hello Paul, First of all welcome here. Your post made me curious about what's in the trunk of my 1978 GTB euro drysump. There's a panel covered with carpet behind each rear light cluster. I removed both (they're kept in place with only one screw each) and took some pictures. To me it looks like some low grade cardboard. As you can see one is broken. The structure is indeed like fine wood chips but as said it looks quite cheap. It reminds me of the boards used in old radios. Hope this helps! Best regards, Peter p.s. do you know the 308 GTB registry of Robert Retzlaff? http://www.308gtb.de/ Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Definitely looks like pressed particle board. I don't recall this material on my car. I'll need to check this the next time I get her out.
Yep, pictures tell the story so much better...particle board, the lesser of the FiberBoard line of products. MDF or Medium Density Fiberboard is the next step up and is just compressed and glued sawdust - common used in flat pack furniture. The next step is HardBoard. Usually much darker in color and rarely seen above 1/4 thickness. Hardboard usually has one smooth side and one rough side from the drying screens it is produced on. Top of the heap is Bakelite - common used in older electronics is basically a resin with a wood flour filler. (Dad's family owned hardware stores in the midwest) Paul, none of these products stand up to moisture well. If you need replace these panels with a substrate, I'd strongly suggest you use a marine grade plywood of the same thickness. and then seal the ends before you recover the pieces. The marine grade plywood will last much better/longer. Any good boat shop should carry this product. Wow, Ferraris do have wood in them... But I'm covering my ears and closing my eyes running around screaming at Paul's linking Italian and Brit electrical systems -La La La La La La!!! (OK, I know its true, I just don't like to hear it!! <grin>) Rick
Hi, - Bigodino: thanks for your welcome. The first class material I was trying to describe is exactly the same as yours and its basically wood (or more exactly remains of wood and saw agglomerated as Rick explained). Regarding Retzlaffs registry, I know it and I must send my cars characteristics for .months. Done this morning! - Rick: thank you for explanations on the various products. When I said that that, in some aspects, Ferrarris could be closer to cheap cars than to RR I totally agree on the standing up to moisture of this type of product but we are clarifying what was the original material. Then, everyone chose the way he feels better. Surely marine plywood can last better and thank you for the idea to seal the ends of the piece before covering it. Dont cover ears and eyes! I love also Brit cars (we race with a friend a Lotus Elan in historic rallies in France) but I speak from some experience in electric gremlins . Paul
On my 78 308 US car those parts are made of fiberglass held in place by one ingeniously placed and designed screw. Helmut
HaHa... it was more jest that truth, well... maybe not. My 2nd Dad runs a Factory Lotus Cortina (Consul) in historic racing here. It was stolen a few years back and when we recovered it, it had been stripped. THANK GOD for small favors. When I put the car back together, I completely rewired it and DE-Lucas'd the electrics. But, I still wear my Lucas T-shirts when I work on it!! Rick
