News
  1. officeline

    officeline Rookie

    Jul 23, 2019
    13
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank Vancauwenberghe
    Hello to whom it concerns,

    I drive a GTC4 Lusso before that I drove an FF. I bought this car the 1st of April 2017.

    In January 2019 I owned my GTC4 18 months and the total down time of this car was more than 50%. After all these problems I refused the car. I did not collect it from the dealer and sued Ferrari Italy.

    0-100km :
    Gear box changed before delivery from FMA ‘Belgium dealer”.

    100km:
    Car left the garage with used tires. Tires where finished after 8000km. My complaint was discarded.

    1000km:
    From the very beginning this car made cracking inside noises. The Lusso went in the shop for several weeks. The noise was never solved. Of course when you dismantle a car to replaced a big gear box inside parts like seats and dashboards change place and start to make cracking noises. Image you are driving a 300.000€ car and it feels like sitting in a canary cage.

    5000 km:
    Oil on gear box in front compartment gets low “PTU”, there was noise in low gear. For some reason the oil disappeared and was nowhere to be found.
    After weeks of investigation the conclusion was to refill the gearbox oil.
    The worker in the shop tells me that this is only a temporary fix as he knows that after a couple of thousand kilometers the noise will come back, and right he was.

    8000km:
    Spoiler came lose and produced noise at 160km/h due to repairment of the gearbox.
    After bad repairment the back door was slightly damaged and the door didn’t close perfectly with the inside light remaining lit and as a result the battery went dead. The car is towed away to the nearest Ferrari shop after a long wait for a “specialized” Ferrari tower.

    15000km:
    Front gear box starts to make noise again.
    After 10000km of uncomfortable driving the car goes back to she shop to replace the front gear box.

    25000km:
    In the back trunk there is a head shelf connected sideways in the car, when driving this shelf starts trembling with loud noise. It is no longer possible to keep it in place. It seems as if the car has become bigger between its back wheels .

    Later on they replaced the engine flywheel plus the wheelhouse and roulement. When I stated that the change a flywheel is very exceptional and indicates problems with the engine they see it merely as something that might happens. I felt as this was a message of more trouble to come.

    27000km:
    My key fell down on the floor and disappeared, it was nowhere to be found. After further examination there is a hole in the carpet floor where things can disappear. I feel this is not acceptable in a car of this stature. I had to bring the car to the shop to recuperate the key.

    28000km:
    The car starts to make a trembling noise when I’m driving 140km/h, when driving faster the noise disappears. I complain several times, but in the Monza shop there was no availability or the problem didn’t look serious enough at that time as they were busy with the sales promotion of the Porto Fino. It took 2 months to make a proper appointment.

    32000km:
    The car goes in the shop mid-august for reparations.
    Monza refuses to give me a replacement car. I was now forced to look for a other car and this went on for 7 months. After 2 months they admit having problems with the engine. First the want to go for a cheap fix and to replace only a limited number of valve tappets. But after further investigation they conclude the motor is a total loss as there is wear in the motor block. After a long discussions they changed the motor with all the connecting oil parts. After 7 months Ferrari Italy confirms in a short mail that the car is repaired and the asked me to collect the car which I refused as I lost my faith in this car. Ferrari states today that this is due to nonchalant driving.
    I received a invoice for other work on the car which I ordered but in the list there is another PTU included which they replaced under warranty for the second time.

    Conclusion:

    Ferrari has definitely a problem with there PTU box and as it is connected to the motor it looks logical that malfunction of the PTU can influence the motor. The never explained to me why the oil on the PTU disappeared.

    I am a Ferrari V12 lover but I am very surprised that Ferrari customers are treated as annoying and they refuse to compensate for problems they are responsible. This is not a complaint against Ferrari’s workshops but against Ferrari itself who lacks to intervene in problems in a reasonable amount of time. For example why does it have to take two weeks to tell the dealer to refill the oil or to give there approval for repair. What I really did not appreciate is that the repairs of the front gear box was not done at once and they left me driving with a faulty car. As a customer I feel victimized as I was not able to use my car 50% of the time. The time I could drive it, it was never 100% functional. I think the Lusso is an experimental car clearly not meant for daily driving. I am convinced there are a lot of Lusso’s out there with low mileage and problems to come.

    Media :

     
    Surge74 and Natkingcolebasket69 like this.
  2. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2013
    4,173
    MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Well firstly, I am sorry to hear of all the problems you have had with the car. And also it appears you were not properly treated by Ferrari corporate.

    When you say "Ferrari states today that this is due to nonchalant driving. " could you explain further. I have an idea, but I'm not sure what this means.

    However, I do wonder if this is a rare exception car or if many Lussos also have these kinds of problems.
     
  3. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    26,453
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    Very sad for you that this experience which should have been amazing was turned into a slow and never ending nightmare. I can imagine how frustrating it was and to always wonder if something will go wrong when driving the car. Which is something one can expect when driving a vintage V12 that has not been maintained but should never have to expect when driving a new Ferrari. It's the type of feeling that ruins the whole experience for the life of the car.

    It seems like your dealer was also a let down.

    How is the lawsuit going? Have they contacted you already?
     
  4. R J

    R J Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 17, 2017
    436
    UK
    Love the Lusso. But multiple threads on these problems and this kind of treatment now. See the following threads:

    Gtc4 lusso problems

    Lusso PTU failure....

    Certainly not encouraging the way you are all being treated. And these problems seem to hit several cars. At the same time, many say their cars are bulletproof. But would have expected better response from dealers and factory given the seriousness of these problems.
     
    crinoid likes this.
  5. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    4,101
    Sorry to hear this, you deserve better.
    This is what stops me from getting another ferrari to use as a driver. No faith.
     
  6. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

    Sep 18, 2007
    4,529
    Malibu, CA
    Bad Lusso!
     
  7. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    10,883
    uggh...sux...ferrari hello do something
     
    otakki, sampelligrino and crinoid like this.
  8. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    2,292
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    High quantity production = Low quality output

    Wake up Ferrari.
     
    otakki, SRW_36, Graz and 2 others like this.
  9. anunakki

    anunakki Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 8, 2005
    50,037
    Las Vegas Nevada
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Sorry for your troubles, but have to say that considering how problematic the car is you managed to put on 20k miles
     
    sidewalk likes this.
  10. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Karting

    Nov 26, 2012
    224
    Sweden
    Well I am truly sorry for all that has happend. I myself are having big issues with Autoropa here in Sweden, they reversed my FF into something and they had to replace the rear bumper plus painting of course. Then when I decided to remove the paint protection film it was discovered that Autoropa had sabotaged my cars paint with deeeeeep scratches all over the paint. Makes you wonder why to use ppf when someone used a sharp item, most likly a knife, to scratch that very same paint that was supposed to be protected.... Out of 3 year my car spend 6 months and counting to repaint my car to solve what Autoropa has damage on the car... Then we have the story about that flywheel then after Autoropa somehow managed to damage that, not shure how they did that... And the puncture.... And the list goes on....

    My FF is otherwise very good, it's just Autoropa that continues to destroy the car. And Ferraris response is "We value our Ferrari Customers and are sorry that we were not able to meet your expectations." - that was of no help.... I love V12 Ferraris and was looking forward to order either 812 spider (never was invited) or SF90 (no invitation there either), so don't get me wrong here, but this will be my last Ferrari, since they simply don't give a damn about there customers.
     
  11. R J

    R J Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 17, 2017
    436
    UK
    Gross negligence by the dealer. Sue them.
     
    BaronM69 likes this.
  12. gilly6993

    gilly6993 Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2009
    1,935
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I’m remaining in the middle on this. I hope to get my car back this weekend. That’ll make it 6.5 weeks at the dealer. Hopefully my troubles are behind me. If so then I’ll chalk it up to “sh$t happens”......


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. officeline

    officeline Rookie

    Jul 23, 2019
    13
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank Vancauwenberghe
     
  14. officeline

    officeline Rookie

    Jul 23, 2019
    13
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank Vancauwenberghe
    Hello Nospinzone,

    This is definitely not a rare case. Search for Lusso problems in the forum and you will find an exact case like mine. Change of PTU , batterie, Engine; rear gearbox even twice , I feel this guy is even of worse than me. But most of all and that is why I sued Ferrari because they don’t compensate clients and they just don’t care that you can’t use your car. I could live with a minimal burden but not with a downtime of 50%
    Literally Ferrari says these problems are due to nonchalant driving in there conclusions. What that means I don’t know. They don’t know me and I feel this statement as offensive. They use whatever reason to escape there responsibly.
    Ferrari is harsh with customers who have major problems with their car, the reason is that one has to understand that there are 2 type of Ferrari drivers.
    People who are in love with the art of the car and they want to conserve the car for the future , they put only a couple of miles on the car every year. This group is more than 90 to 95% of Ferrari owners. In their case Ferrari is a second or third car. Logical most people who buy the car use it for a roadbook trip or a yearly vacation and hope the car will one day increase in value. Ferrari’s with more than 60.000km decrease a lot in value. That is why most secondhand Ferrari on the internet always have low mileage.
    They other group like me are daily users and they are very rare, I use it for daily transportation, one might expect that a GT car is made for daily transportation but I am now convinced that every Ferrari is really a delicate car and one should never keep it when the warranty is over if you use it frequently. That is why I sell my Ferrari’s at 50.000km or after 3 years. But this car starts complaining from the beginning. Clearly I and the other complainer are one of the first users who use it often.

    In this aspect Ferrari is very lucky that there customers don’t use the car often and that major problems don’t come out in the first five years. Some Lusso owners will be surprised what is to come when the car gets older. The Lusso is an overengineered car and as they sell very limited it is never thoroughly tested and customers who had to change their PTU will most probably one day have to change their engine.

    Although I like the car I would never keep it longer then the warranty period. That’s why I sold my previous FF.

    This explains partially why the customer poll satisfaction of Ferrari users is high, how do they do it?

    The reason is simple. Ferrari workshops only provides the poll bureaus the addresses of customers who have been satisfied with their repairs. Since my car shows serious defects, I am not called anymore. But this is identical for the other brands, these polls are extremely manipulated.

    Users who want to report Lusso problems can mail me : Frank@officeline.be ,
     
    mclaren slr likes this.
  15. BaronM69

    BaronM69 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2005
    832
    Washington DC / FR

    >> **** does happen.
    Now a company like Ferrari, especially selling what they sell, has the money and overall reliability to afford taking the rare lemons out of the road, and not alienating clients who purchase Lusso like vehicles (and daily drive them!).
    >> I feel like your issue is with your dealer first, and then with Ferrari who should be making sure this does not get to this point of frustration.

    On my end, 20kmi + on my Lusso and still going strong.
    Only issue I had was a harness disconnecting in gear box, allowing only half of the gears to engage.
    My dealer (Algar in Philly) did a fantastic job taking care of the car immediately, sourcing parts and fixing it as soon as they could (more than 25 man hours of work) so I could be back on the road. They knew it's my daily.
    Ferrari road side also did a great job supporting towing, redelivering the car to me....
     
    Jamie traina likes this.
  16. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2010
    310
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    You've had a bunch of recurring issues with the gearbox, which to me sounds far more likely to be that the initial repair was botched. This really seems more like an issue with the service from the dealer, rather than Ferrari. The question does remain though as to why the car needed a new gearbox before delivery. Did you knwo that when you bought the car? Did you get a discount because of it?

    I was under the impression that Europe had much stronger consumer protection laws than in the US. If this was in the US it would be an open and shut Lemon law buyback. I'm surprised you're having such difficulty getting compensation.
     
  17. officeline

    officeline Rookie

    Jul 23, 2019
    13
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank Vancauwenberghe
    Hello,

    I want to be clear on the fact that my workshop Monza did whatever they could what was in their power. But they have to ask approval to Modena, they have to make test and this procedure ends ups in long discussion while the car stands still for weeks, their hands are tied up. They think the customer has to cope with that no matter how long it takes, in my case this is already 1 year.

    No the problem is with Ferrari SPA. I think you will be able to judge when a real problem comes up and I don’t wish you this misery I am going along. Happy to hear that your Lusso is still functioning and i wish you the joy I had with that car daily.

    Believe me if it was up to me I would swap my boring current V12 S600 right away for my Lusso. It is not about the concept of the car it is about the decency Ferrari lakes to treats its customers. All I want is a service adequate to the money I paid.
    One thing is a fact, in Belgium there are maybe a handful of Lusso’s delivered and already 2 or 20% can be categorized as lemon cars.
    Maybe they think they can get away with it but I will go to the end no matter the effort
     
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    10,883
    how come the resident ferrari member doesnt ever contribute to threads like this??
     
  19. officeline

    officeline Rookie

    Jul 23, 2019
    13
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank Vancauwenberghe
     
  20. officeline

    officeline Rookie

    Jul 23, 2019
    13
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank Vancauwenberghe
    Hello Jaguar 36

    Ferrari claims that the big gear box in the back was changed for upgrade reason. Clearly it was due to prototype problems, why else would one change a major part of car. They never communicated what the advantages or reasons where to change the gearbox.

    I always claimed when you change this part which is bolted to the chassis you change the cohesion of the car. When I got the car it was one canary cage as all seats and dashboard where cracking. This replacement was done by FMA Antwerp who sold the car, later on the car was maintained by the dealer Monza who stated when I showed him the pictures taken of the replacement, this was not done according to the state of the art. I am not a technician if Ferrari SPA gets a complaint it is their task to intervene sadly they don’t care. Do the test send a mail to customer care if you get an answer it must be raining in Italy.

    Can anyone answer me to the fact that when the oil of the PTU front gearbox was gone without a trace the solution of Ferrari SPA was merely to refill the oil without concluding what was the underlying reason. Leafing my car 4 weeks in the workshop just to put in a couple of liters oil looks not professional to me.
    Customer care replied 7 months after my car went in in the workshop with the dry message “your car is ready” without stating which repairs where done. Today , 1 year later I still don’t have a list of the repairments done on the car. Who can take that seriously, Ferrari SPA looks like a very obscure, world strange company to me.

    In Europe there is no clear law about lemon cars as in the States but the European laws and the Belgian laws have some prejudicing. It is all about proving that these fault are out of the ordinary. And of course If Ferrari does not communicate one can only draw on justice as the oblige me to.
     
    Makuono likes this.
  21. officeline

    officeline Rookie

    Jul 23, 2019
    13
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank Vancauwenberghe
     

    Attached Files:

  22. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

    Jul 19, 2006
    9,674
    USA
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith

    Not sure what you are referring to..???
     
  23. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    10,883
    people from ferrari FNA and EU are on fchat. they shld chime in.
     
    Jaguar36 likes this.
  24. Graz

    Graz Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 15, 2012
    1,698
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Thomas

    This^^^^^^. No entity or car manufacturer is immune to it. Eventually when you cut corners bad things happen. Ferrari cannot afford to be so complacent particularly when many other brands are biting at their heels. Car enthusiasts have a lot of choices today and they expect professional treatment by dealers and the manufacturer. When Luca was running the show the enthusiasm and passion at the top was palpable. Progress? I think not.
     
  25. officeline

    officeline Rookie

    Jul 23, 2019
    13
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank Vancauwenberghe
    I completely agree in case of Ferrari,

    But let me tell you not all manufactures are like that. I have a friend who bought a porsche GT3 which was I the workshop for 3 months due to motor problems the engine could end up in flames and porsche exchanged the motor. Porsche paid him 20.000 € without discussion as compensation.

    Unfortunately bad things with the car already happened, Immune or not it is justice who will decides.
    i'll keep everybody informed about the justice process and will post the conclusions of Ferrari.
     

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