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Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by Napolis, Nov 6, 2003.
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Wait, I am confused now, on the old board we had a few posts saying that much of her story was a mock-up made up by the goverment...now I am confused.
She apparently doesn't recall the rape, but the medical records show it. What a tragedy. She's got a book coming out, and from what I've heard, she doesn't claim to be a hero, rather a victim.
The whole thing is a tragedy. I remember the great Pogo cartoon on the day the Vietnam war "ended". It showed him standing on Hamburger Hill looking out over mountian's of bodies. "We have met the enemy and he is us..."
Pogo is the smartest possum I know!
That's the only thing besides Ferrari that I collect.
I have a shot of him talking to Porky, looking into the sunset,
"Relax, looking back, the view always improves!"
RIP Walt Kelly
Where's my Dixie Chicks CD?
I don't think her "story" was made up at all................I think the rescue was a little over dramatized but who really knows.......I don't think she's a hero at all...........Now, before I get flamed, I would like to say that I think she is an amazing person and it is truly a truiumph of the soul that she survived and has recuperated like she has. She is a person of iron will and apparently a good soldier. However, in my opionion, a HERO is someone who saves other people, or does something selfless above and beyond the ordinary. Jessie just kept herself alive......truly amazing and awe inspiring, but not a HERO......she didn't "do anything"....her truck was blown up, she was captured then she was rescued...she is a victim...the rescuers are much closer to being hero's than she is...and even IMHO they're not "quite hero's".That is their job. Their job is to go into the situation and rescue people. They train for it, they practice it, and they are paid for it.......I come from a long line family in the military.....I would just like to say that, so people don't think I'm "coming down" on our country men....My Grandfather was an Admiral in the Navy, My other Grandfather was an Amiral inthe Navy, My Uncle was an Admiral in the Coast Gaurd, My father was Captain in the Navy, my Brother is Colonel in the Marine Corps, and I serve my country as well.
Wasn't her truck blown up because she got lost? I think it's great that she made through the ordeal, but if her own mistake put her in harm's way then I would call this story TRIUMPHANT not HEROIC.
Did anyone catch Tom Hanks' documentary "Return With Honor"?? It had some incredibly moving stories of Vietnam POWs.. Guys who were imprisoned and tortured for almost 8 years. While being a POW of any sort is a horrible thing, I don't think the Lynch story even comes close to comparing.
I have a hard time with this tale because of the inconsistencies, lack of memory of any events, etc. Seems almost like people are telling her what she should believe... Also, quotes like "...or if they assaulted her and then broke her bones into splinters until she was almost dead" bother me, since past evidence and eye witness accounts all said that the accident is what caused her injuries. Given the numerous eye witness stories from the hospital, she was treated better than any other patient. I don't doubt the rape claim, but aside from that I think it's been overdramatized.. and the hero claims are definitely irksome.
I did a quick search and it seems that there is medical evidence that she was sodomized. If indeed that happened, it is a tragedy, it is unacceptable and Im glad that she has no memory of the assault.
I just cant control my cynicism in this matter. The whole Jessica Lynch fiasco has been so Wag the Dog-esque right from the get-go that it just makes me want to throw up. She is a victim all right, but she is not Americas Hero, as some in the media claim. To state the painfully obvious: the real heroes are the people that are over there right now that are being wounded and killed.
BTW, how "convenient" that she can't remember anything. This leaves a blank slate for the spin doctors to come up with anything they want, without having to worry about coaching Pvt. Lynch in what to say.
The initial report was of her bravely firing her weapon until she ran out of ammo. Now she says her gun jammed and she didnt fire at anyone.
Then they said she was shot, stabbed and beaten. It turned out that her injuries were due to the accident/crash.
Then we were told that the special ops guys came blasting in Hollywood style, fighting their way through hostile forces. It seems that the only people there were the doctors and nurses that were, incidentally, giving Pvt. Lynch the VIP treatment. These same doctors even tried to deliver her to American forces but the ambulance came under fire and they had to turn back.
Now, just in time to promote the upcoming book, the rape claims surface. Maybe she was raped, but I strongly doubt it.
Of course I feel bad for what she went through. But I feel much worse for the people (and their families) that are actually sacrificing limbs or their lives in this war.
No one is singling them out for parades, movies and book deals. They're in a VA hospital waiting for proper treatment or prostheses.
Im sick and tired of being lied to.
Do a search on Google or Vivisimo - think for yourself.
I'm glad to see my skepticism and annoyance with the whole matter is shared by others. Joe, I think you put it perfectly.
Hero is used too often these days and lessens it. Lynch is a survivor not a Hero.
Audie Murphy, George Patton, Richard Bong, Jimmy Doolittle the 2 Special Ops guys that sacrificed their lives in the real Black Hawk Down and many others are Heros.
The Vietnam issue still pisses me off as many ex-protesters now have turned face because its the thing to do, I remember in '71 at 6 years old my dad who was a ex Marine pointed out a soldier to me in his Military uniform at a store and commented at the time how they were being called baby-killers and chastized by many, it pissed me off then at 6 years old and still does.
I was a proud protester of the Vietnam War. ( I still am). My protest was never directed at the men and women who fought there. It was directed at those who sent them there. The people who called Soldiers "baby killers" were ass holes then and their ass holes today.
Of all of the people that were rescued from their captors, why is she the only one who is being called a hero, what about pvt. Johnson? I agree with everyone, the word HERO is being used realllllyyyy loosely.
Hey buddy, that's "FORMER MARINE", not ex. Once a marine, always a marine.
I just have no idea why they're touting this information (well, I know damn well why networks would spew this all over the place), but in some semblance of noble reporting, what's the message...
Hey everyone, someone you thought had it real bad was actually worse?
Oh, the made-for-TV movie forgot something?
Wow, this really happens to POWs?
Is the NBC banner at her wedding going to read:
| Congratulations Jessica! We're Sorry You Were Sodomized! |
| Love, NBC (story at 11pm) |
I'm just furious they don't let her move on and live a life. I also have this feeling there's a push to glorify her because she's female. This is NOT in any way because I don't think she's been through Hell, but because proportionally there seems to be less hoopla when experienced male soldiers are held captive. Is it the presumption that "the men should be able to take car of themselves," or a feminist push for women on the frontlines (I think it is strong evidence they shouldn't be for this exact situation)?
Her book is coming out and they're trying to hype it. As for protesting the Viet Nam war, I had the unfortumte situation of both being involved in it and protesting it (not at the same time). It was a stupid war, we got nothing from it, and more than a few of my friends ended up dead there. It was proof that you can't trust your leaders, and guess what, some 30 years later, those who evaded the draft have done it to us again.
It's just sad that's what they had to stoop to then, just to sell the book. I don't know if that says more about her agents, the media, or the market of people buying the book buying it now to read about the rape.
I have seen these people. I would have been stunned if she HAD NOT been raped.
And for that they should be crucified.
At least she didn't need 3 ghostwriters or a horde of fact checkers from Harvard to write the book.
Art - I agree with you about the Vietnam war - it was stupid and a waste of human life and US time. I served with a few guys who were in Nam, and am great friends with a retired Marine who spent three tours over there. Nothing good came of it.
Having said that, the war was a product of the times. Am I defending it? Of course not, but we were trying to stop the spread of communism (which would have happened anyways) because we felt it was a big threat to the US. My grandfather, the Asst. SecDef during the later years of Nam, predicted the fall of the Soviet Union, and it had nothing to do with fighting it in a war or out spending them.
Regardless, to say that our leaders cannot be trusted as a result of that war is a little overkill, and putting the same light on Iraq as some do on Nam is, again, total overkill.
I understand your distrust of the Gov't based on your serving over there, and I could never, and will never, attempt to tell you you are wrong, because I was never there.
But, you do need to realize that Nam was 30 years ago, and the times have changed considerably. Was Iraq perfect? No, but it was damn close in terms of casualties. Is there difinitive proof that there were WMDs? Not yet, and there my never be, but that doesn't change the fact that everybody from 1992 - 2002 thought they were there.
We lost in Nam, and we would have lost even if we won.
We won in Iraq, and the world will be (in a few years) a better place as a result. The tactics used in Iraq are so totally different than what was used in Nam, and the way US soldiers went about the war was totally different.
I know you will never agree with Iraq, and that's fine. But I think you really need to rethink your comparisons of Iraq with Nam.
A female army mechanic in Iraq is captured and rescued with little or no resistance.
This story needed a rewrite to jazz it up from the beginning.
Well, let's be honest here, she was a mechanic, not a combatant, real cush job, no way shape or form a hero.
Raped, who knows, it makes for good copy.
The men of the ODA's are the heroes, Jessica Lynch is destined for a footnote in anecdotal training excersizes for new recruits.
I got this in an email from a classmate of mine:
>Â Â Go to Original
>Â Â If I Were Bush's Speechwriter...
>Â Â By Andy Rooney
>Â Â CBS News
>Â Â Sunday 2 November 2003
>Â Â Years ago, I was asked to write a speech for President Nixon.
>Â Â I didn't do that, but I wish President Bush would ask me to write a speech
>for him now.
>Â Â Here's what I'd write if he asked me to - which is unlikely:
>Â Â My fellow Americans - (the word "fellow" includes women in political
>Â Â My fellow Americans. One of the reasons we invaded Iraq was because I
>suggested Saddam Hussein had something to do with the terrorist attack on the World
>Trade Center. No evidence that's so, I wish I hadn't said it.
>Â Â I said we were going to get Saddam Hussein. To be honest, we don't know
>whether we got him or not. Probably not.
>Â Â I said we'd get Osama bin Laden and wipe out al Qaeda. We haven't been able
>to do that, either. I'm as disappointed as you are.
>Â Â I probably shouldn't have said Iraq had nuclear weapons. Our guys and the
>U.N. have looked under every bed in Iraq and can't find one.
>Â Â In one speech, I told you Saddam Hussein tried to buy the makings of
>nuclear bombs from Africa. That was a mistake and I wish I hadn't said that. I get
>bad information sometimes just like you do.
>Â Â On May 1, I declared major combat was over and gave you the impression the
>war was over. I shouldn't have declared that. Since then, 215 American
>soldiers have been killed in Iraq. As the person who sent them there, how terrible do
>you think that makes me feel?
>Â Â I promised to leave no child behind when it comes to education. Then I
>asked for an additional $87 billion for Iraq. It has to come from somewhere. I
>hope the kids aren't going to have to pay for it - now in school or later when
>they're your age.
>Â Â When I landed on the deck of the carrier, I wish they hadn't put up the
>sign saying MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. It isn't accomplished.
>Â Â Maybe it should have been MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.
>Â Â I've made some mistakes and I regret it. Let me just read you excerpts from
>something my father wrote five years ago in his book, âA World Transformed.â
>Â Â I firmly believed we should not march into Baghdad ...To occupy Iraq would
>instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us and
>make a broken tyrant, into a latter-day Arab hero â¦
>Â Â This is my father writing this.
>Â Â ...assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched
>dictator and condemning them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban
>Â Â We should all take our father's advice.
>Â Â That's the speech I'd write for President Bush. No charge.
>Â Â -------
>Â Â Jump to TO Features for Wednesday 5 November 2003
>(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed
>without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
>included information for research and educational purposes.)
>Â© Copyright 2003 by TruthOut.org
I'm with Joe and Dan on this one. It all seems a matter of convenience to have that blank space that can be filled in with anything.
>I have seen these people. I would have been stunned if she HAD NOT been raped.
>And for that they should be crucified.
Whom have you seen?
My brother, the oldest member of a large family (I am the youngest), went to Vietnam a bright and ambitious young man, and came back disabled and a depressed alcoholic who drank himself to death.
You can pretty much guess my view of war.
Afghanistan was a necessity, but Iraq was/is an atrocity.