Maintenance 360 vs early 430?

Tillman,
All years 360s had the steel brakes, with the exception of the CS, which had CC brakes. The F430 was offered with steel brakes standard and the CC as an option. I know that by the end, the factory was essentially forcing customers to take the CC upgrade.

Others can chime in on CC brake costs, both for maintenance and replacement. I have the big brake package on my 360 which is the same size as the CC brake rotors, but mine are steel. I know it's significantly cheaper to maintain and replace rotors, although it was a very, very pricey upgrade.

 

I thought you could just unbolt the CC rotors and replace them with steel rotors?

 

It is much more expensive to replace the rotors on CCM brakes, but the beauty of it is, unless you take it to the track, you'll probably never have to replace it cause it last for a very long time.

 

it is recommended to replace rotors after every 2nd set of pads, I don't believe pad wear is much different to normal steel brakes.

To the OP, there are plenty of 430's around with steel brakes and they're cheap to replace.

John.

 

CCM should last the life of the car according to Ferrari, at least that's what the dealer told me. Unless the car was tracked or a rotor was cracked like taking off a wheel. The number of $30K has been thrown around as full replacement costs.
As above some folks recommend replacing CCM with steel brakes at a much lower costs.

 

Short version - carbon approximately 2x steel.

To replace two full-floating Brembo rotors with bobbins is $1100 for 355mm. Ratio up accordingly for 380mm.

There is currently a post for one carbon rotor at $1900, which is an attractive price. I suspect if purchased from Ferrari the cost is north of two grand per pizza.

A set of Porterfield R4-S pads for two rotors is about $250. I've heard a grand for a full set of pads for the carbon version from Ferrari.

There was a full set of Brembo carbon brakes for $19,000 with 380mm rotors. The same size Brembo kit in steel is $9200.

 

I used to track my 2005 430 with steel brakes quite a bit. After a while, I replaced rotors and pads for about 3300 at the dealer. Frankly, if I didn't track it, I think the steel setup would last me the life of the car or me whichever comes first.

Dave

 

Is your acquaintance then not aware of the $40K-50K price difference between a 360 and F430? That doesn't concern them but a brake job does?

 

430 = no timing belt...

 

unless he is planning on tracking the car those CCB probably will last 100k miles in normal street driving condition.

 

I can also add that I've owned my 430 for 10+ years and spent 8-9K on routine maintenance including a "big" 10 year service for 2200. Repairs have been very minor. Perhaps a long term 360 owner can chime in.

Dave

 

360 maintenance costs would probably be slightly higher than F430 maintenance costs. Wild card is early F430 that hasn't had headers addressed. The 360 is not hard to maintain (well, compared to the prior F355 and 348), except every 3-5 years when you do a timing belt and tensioners. F430 has no timing belt service.

Neither of these cars has the engine out style service requirements of 1990s Ferraris. Just get the one that you like that is in your budget.

 

How many miles on your 430? My 2001 Modena has 19k miles, and while I am not the original owner, I have all maintenance receipts.

Over the past fourteen years to perform the annual service … $12600

Timing belts at required intervals … $12400

Extraneous items … $12900

This last category is comprised of $2600 for general “stuff”, $3000 for alternator and battery, $1100 for an AC hose, $1500 water pump, $2500 AC compressor, $1300 for another AC hose, $900 for window microswitch.

Not meaning to incite a food fight, but even with the high maintenance bill of a 360, with the purchase price differential of a 430, the total cost of my car is less. At some point - perhaps five or more years from now - total cost of either car will be the same. But if you consider that anomalous high cost of the extraneous items, the total cost of the 360 is almost always less than that of the 430.

 

Pretty good summary. I find the 360 runs about 3K per year (on average) maybe a little more but not a lot more unless you have a catastrophic failure.

The problem with hardtop's number is that 8K doesn't even cover fluids every year for 10+ years. Forget anything else. I think he has the number wrong or missed some receipts.

 

Carbon ceramic rotors are around $6500 EACH, and a set of pads around $2k. The rotors will last a long time (~100k miles), and the CCB produce negligible brake dust. BUT. If you track the car, especially on tracks with long straights, the heat produced will degrade the rotors really quickly. Probably they will still last maybe 2x or 3x longer than steel rotors but steel rotors cost only around $1k a PAIR, so it's about an order of magnitude difference. CCBs have less unsprung weight, stop better, fade less (almost nonexistent fade), but you pay the price if you track the car. Also, a rock that would be harmless to a steel rotor could crack a CCB rotor, requiring replacement.

 

I'm just trying to provide facts, not argue value. People can make their own judgment. My car has 26K on it. I tallied the maintenance at 8519.47 for the 10 years. Works out to 33 cents/mile. Your car has cost 1.58/mile not including "extraneous items." Repairs have been very minimal.

Dave

 

Here's the list. You add it up:

2006 370.87
2007 1150.45
2008 426.03
2009 977.56
2010 558.16
2011 1271.69
2012 462.51
2013 1150.98
2015 2090.80

I skipped 2014 since it was minor and I planned the big one early. 2006-13 was done by Ferrari of Denver. 2015 was done by their former chief tech who is now an independent.

Dave

 

Tillman - although your original request centered around the brakes, while that question has been answered, there are additional maintenance costs provided for your friend to consider with respect to annual maintenance and “other things that break”. However, there is a glaring omission in this thread which your friend needs to consider, and that is the clutch.

My 360 is a stick-shift and when it is time for a clutch, that service by a Ferrari dealership will be $5-6000 because I will also upgrade to the six-bolt ring gear. A clutch job for a paddle-shift 430 is approximately 50% more. A clutch should last 20-30,000 miles. That said, hardtop’s maintenance expenditures may see an increase in a year or two. If that is not cause for concern, there is something else to consider. Although a rare occurrence, it is not uncommon for the F1 hydraulic actuator to go bad. If this system is replaced by a Ferrari dealership, that cost can be on the order of fifteen grand.

A comment on the extraneous costs in my post. The previous owner had some fancy shmancy exhaust with Euro-spec headers that had no air injection rails, straight pipes and a titanium muffler. He had the ECU re-flashed aftermarket so the car would pass inspection. I have his repair receipts of where it got so hot in the engine bay that some wire harnesses were melted. It is reasonable conjecture the excess heat had a long-term effect on the surrounding components, thus the alternator and AC compressor were both replaced within the past two years.

OR

Could these two items have not been affected by the radiant heat, and they will go bad after ten to twelve years? If so, hardtop and other 360 / 430 owners should brace themselves for that repair bill.

 

Why is his hydraulic actuator going to go bad? Hardtop's car is a manual.

Hardtop is giving us first hand info from an owner who has had his F430 since new AND has some pretty good miles on it. While everyone's mileage may vary, so to speak, the information we are seeing here is pretty indicative of F430 ownership. I don't see why people have to argue with him.

 

F1 actuator can be replaced by an independent shop with a rebuilt unit for less than $2500 - just did it.

Harnesses had to have been in direct contact with engine components to melt - they're designed to handle radiant heat. Direct? Not so much.

 

No offense was intended. It looks like you did full fluids every other year and oil only in the even years. I find the transaxle gets so much heat that I do the fluids every year, different schedule. With full fluids at about 1000, 10 years is 10K. With your schedule, it can be less.

 

Where does he say his is a stick shift?

Nobody is arguing with anybody ... just giving maintenance costs.

I did not imply that Dave's car will suffer a hydraulic system failure, I just stated that F1 cars may experience this unpleasant event, and if you take your car to the dealership for repair it will be a shock to your wallet.

 

You are correct on the independent cost vs dealership cost of the actuator. I was just providing a data point because some folks use only the dealership.

You are incorrect on the melted harness. The component I was referring to was not in direct contact with any part of the engine. Failure resulted from substantial radiant heat.