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maintenance concerns on a 308 GTSI that has not been started in 5 years

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by phrogs, Apr 19, 2004.

  1. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Apr 13, 2004
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    Ok Im looking into picking up a 81 308 GTSI, THe car has not been started in 5 years
    what recommendations of maintenance would you guys give me, since I don't have my Ferrari workshop manual to thumb through yet?

    I was thinking a definate replacment of cam belts and the posibility of the engine oil seals and gaskets, But I would be inclined to get here started to see if it leaks first than just tear it down needlessly I would rather be driving it!


    I am very mechanically inclined I do all the work on my corvette ZR1's and I do work on helicopters in the marine corps so I will be doing all my own work if I get it.

    only thing to be from the outside would be parts, original Ferrari of course any any technical advice you owners can give :D


    johnny
     
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  3. GearHead

    GearHead Karting

    Jan 3, 2004
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    I hope you are getting a smokin' deal on it, because it could easily need more work than it will be worth. Two valve CIS 308's aren't exactly burning down the house on the used car market these days.

    Even though you are mechanically experienced, I'd spend the $250 to have a good prepurchase inspection done on it by a good Ferrari shop. It will be money very well spent. They'll also help you on figuring what a good price for the car would be.

    I'd also want to know why it hasn't been started in 5 years. Will it start now? The answers can make a big difference. If it hasn't been started in 5 years because it won't start because of that little incident 5 years ago, you know, where that pesky piston flew out of the block, you might want to pass!

    Again, get the PPI done. It is worth it.

    Finally, at a minimum, you will almost certainly be looking at belts, tensioners, potentially very expensive CIS problems (CIS doesn't take well to having gas sit idle in its components for 5 years, there could be some major injection components that need replacing), brake caliper rebuilds, piston rust/seizure, rust in gas tank, etc. etc. etc.
     
  4. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    If the price is right, and it is supposed to run, I would buy it with some contingencies. Pay for the car as if it will need an engine rebuild. All fuel and lines will have to be removed and properly cleaned BEFORE TRYING TO START THE CAR. Believe me I know this from experience. Talk to a qualified mechanic about pre oiling the cylinders before you try to start it.
     
  5. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
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    If it is the one on here that needs interior etc. Get it cheap otherwise it will cost more than what you could have purchased a nice one for.
     
  6. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Well what does a rebuild cost 8K If you pay someone to do it?

    The car in question is in need of the interior reinstalled not replaced, and it needs to be reasemblyed because it was taken apart for painting and then not put back together, A lot of things came together for the car to end up in the way it is, the owner doesnt turn his ownwrenches so over the past 20 years he has been paying others to do the work, and while a 2 vavle version isnt going to make me rich its a good first ferrari for me and in the condition its in ill get it for a good price and then put my own sweat into it.

    while im expecting some surprises as with any project car no matter what it might be, as I expect the fuel system to need attention so on and so forth

    Unfortunatly there is not ferrai shop near the car to come and take a look at the car.
     
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  8. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    I talked with that guy the other day, he seems pretty up front about the car. I live in WI and am about 4 hours away from the shop where it's at. If you get real serious about the car perhaps we could strike a deal for me to go and look at it for you, take some pics, etc...
     
  9. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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  10. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Yes it looks rough but come on woudl you rather see it parted out or reborn, and with me doing my own work that price of fixing drops dromatically..

    DOnt worry guys I have tackeld a few corvettes that were in similar shape and people told me the same thing, "youll put more into than its worth"
    well here I am and im not broke yet.

    anyway I was just looking for maintenance items you thought of thanks for the replies but what is the CSI unit? are you refering to the carbs Im not up on ferrari lingo sorry :D


    johnny
     
  11. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    That's the car??!! It doesn't look anything like the pic in the ad! And from what the guy said on the phone it was in much better condition than the photos show.
    Anyway, when I bought my 308 I had no idea when it was run last consistently. I changed the belts, replaced all the hoses, a few other things and things have been pretty good.
    As far as this particular car, I was under the impression that the engine had been gone through during his restoration... if that's the case there shouldn't be much to worry about other than minor stuff like belts, hoses and other small stuff.
    Overall, you could buy a car that's "ready to go" for the price (of this car) plus the money you would be putting into it. But if you buy this car and have the time, interest and money to put into it then you KNOW that things have been done to it because you did it yourself. You know the belts are done, the water pump, the rad, etc. I've heard many stories about guys buying cars that were "suppopsedly" serviced and paid a premium for them only to have to turn around and do that stuff all over again costign them thousands.
    This car is worth saving and if you have the interest do it! Do it yourself, learn about the car and enjoy it.
     
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  13. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

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    CIS is short for the Bosch Continuous Injection System or K-Jetronic.
     
  14. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    OK, so what's a fair price? OK here goes:

    Engine rebuild: $10,000
    Body and paint work: $5,000
    Replacement parts: $3,000
    New tires: $1200
    Brake calipers: $1400
    Miscellaneous unknowns: $3000
    PPI to tell you all of this: $300

    $23,900 total deductions. Car worth $25,000 restored. Hmmm.

    I'd offer $1,000 and might negotiate to $1,100. But if you want to make sure you're "in the money" after you are through restoring, I would insist that he PAY YOU to take it - $2,000 minimum to be on the safe side.
     
  15. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    And all of these cost are if I paied someone to do the work! aint happening drop all your prices to include the cost of parts only not labor.
    That includes the paint
    First off anyone who pays 5K for a paint job should be kicked in the nuts after they write the check.

    The paint on this car whil eunder a nice layer of dust is brand new.


    I also dont see 10K in a engine rebuild where is that number from??? does that include the price of a new motor?
     
  16. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    #13 Husker, Apr 19, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    yeah I know :D
     
  18. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    That looks like a handful, but if you're not interested in driving it for a few years I suppose it will be a decent project.

    (think I'm kidding about the timeframe? Look up Jay's GT4 restoration on this site)

    For 18K (asking price, always negotiate) you can get a running but needs work 308 in Colorado from another fchatter no affiliation, don't know the car nor owner

    That put the value of this thing barely into 5 digits, IMHO. I'd show up with a flatbed and 7K cash in $20 bills.

    Things to look for: rodent damage to electrical, missing parts, gummed up fuel system, rotted brakes, etc. etc. While this is all typical of old parked cars, Fcar parts are a lot more expensive than Chevy parts.

    Good luck
     
  19. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Sorry, but you're used to Corvette prices & are in for a bit of sticker shock when it comes to Ferrari pricess.

    A new 308 engine runs about 25 big ones (when/if you can find one).

    Here's some examples of current prices from the ferrari.uk web site for the car you're interested in:

    New head w/o valves, cams, cam covers, etc:
    #114644 CYLINDER HEAD VER/US Unit price: £2,319.90 ( That's $4175 USD @ the current $1.80 USD/GBP exchange rate).

    1 Cam:
    #114070 CAMSHAFT Unit price: £781.70 ($1407)

    Here's the price for a distributor cap:
    #115518 DISTRIBUTOR CAP Unit price: £150.90 ($271.62)


    If you price out a complete strip to bare metal repaint job, for ANY vintage vehicle, you'll find that $5 big ones is on the low side. We ain't talking a MAACO respray, or a scuff sand & fill in the chips respray.

    I'm not trying to put you down. Just telling it like it is so you'll know what you're getting into. (I didn't & was lucky I got a well sorted out car.) From the way you describe yourself I don't doubt you can do the work. I'm just concerned that you could be paying more than the car is worth, & end up sinking more money into parts than you realize.

    You mentioned workshop manuals, etc.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Here are some pointers to other online resources that you'll probably find useful:

    'Online Service Manual' - http://www.cameragear.com/ec/

    308 GTB Register TechTips - http://www.r-design.net/308/index_e.html

    Ferrari Club of America:Northwest Region Site: FerrariFAQ - http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/
    (Click on Ferrari FAQ & scroll down)

    FerrariList.com:
    DIY and Mechnical information and instructions - http://www.ferrarilist.com/?query=docs&action=catlist&cat=5
    Forum: Technical/DIY - http://www.ferrarilist.com/forum/list.php?f=3
    Also the FerrariList archives are searchable.
    Another, quite new, forum is: http://www.*****************/

    Ferrari 308 FAQ - http://home.att.net/~ferrari/308faq1.htm

    Technical Articles and Writings by Tony Palladino - http://www.modena-motors.com/Technical%20Articles.htm

    SERVICE & PARTS MANUALS, SPECS & SERVICE BULLETINS:
    Private Ferrari Document Collection - http://ferrari.jenkins.org/books/

    PARTS SOURCES

    The most comprehensive parts sorce is Ferrari.uk. A couple of years ago the Ferrari factory shipped them 51 TONS of 308 parts, the remaining end of life inventory. If they don't have something, then you'll be lucky to find it anywhere else. In general their prices are a lot better than buying thru a local Ferrari dealer. They're a FerrariChat sponsor, but their online catalog is only accessable via Ferrari's owners club:
    www.owners.ferrari.com

    You'll have to register with the site. Once youre in the site, keep clicking the 'spare parts' menu items & gadgets until you finally get to ferrari.uk's catalog.
     
  20. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    All i have to say is: Verell KNOWS his stuff!!!!! Listen grasshopper.
     
  21. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Thanks for the links,
    Your not hurting my feelings trust me its ok I am good to go with the critisim some people dont think its worth restoring and while its not going to be free and I will probably be on here asking a million questions about this car I apreciate everyones help and knowlage.
    I know all to well what it cost to do paint work I am fully qualified to do paint work and The best part about me being in the military is I have a paint booth at my disposal,
    when I say I do my own work I do my own work that includes paint.

    Paint work aside I Know what I am dealing with in the difference of parts between vettes and ferraris the truly funny thing is my corvette is worth more than the 308. But thats not the reason the reason is I always look for the under dog car and want to fix it that is 90% of the reason I get cars is to turn wrenches on them. I love it!


    and if you have the manual the tools and the parts you can do anything yourself.


    The parts are always worth more than the complete car and if this one was to much of a hand full I could just part it out and move on. :D
     
  22. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
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    Since you're handy with Corvettes already, AND, since this one may well need a rebuild and who-knows-whatever-else, heck just see if you can pull the engine and drop a Vette engine in its place. I've read about Chevy 350's being put in Ferraris, so who knows?

    Problem is, I'm not sure what you would call it. It'd be like a kit car in reverse I guess.

    Chevarri?
    Ferrarvette?


    Or maybe just... Fierro!
     
  23. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Well the car seems to be relativly complete except that is in peices, not big deal. These cars are not comlicated, very basic wiring (wired but basic).

    It's the little things that can add up really fast, stuff like interior parts, trim peices, weather stripping, wheel center caps, horn button, various switches, etc. These things can cost big money. Engine components are also very pricey as you have been told by others.

    fuel injection components for the CIS system are getting pricey aswell. A new fuel head will cost you about 2k and after 5 years of not running it will more then likely be sized. But the bright side is most of the injection parts can be bought at other places outside the Ferrari dealer for much less money.

    The peoject is a big one, but we can't really say wether or not it is worth doing. Saving any Ferrari from becoming a parts car..to me is worth it..unless it's just way to far gone. This one seems saveable.

    If you need insperation, have a look at the 79 308 GTB restoation thread by Paul Newman. He is doing a fantastic job on his car. There is know reason why you should not beable to do the same.

    Tom
     
  24. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    If you believe the price is reasonable, then go for it. We'll be here to get you over the idiosyncracies.

    308s are actually pretty easy to work on, just have their quirks like any car. Well, they have a few more than most production cars. Because of their low annual volume, Ferrari never invested in refining their assembly techniques. Their body & interior fit & finish show a lot of hand assembly & vary surprisingly from car to car.

    The exception is their engines & transmissions. They are lovely jewels of precision machinery. If you've worked on '70s or '80s twin-cam motorcycles, you'll find the engine pretty familiar.

    The BOSCH K-Jetronic fuel injection system is about as bulletproof as you can find. Once it's working it tends to stay working...almost forever.

    You might as well plan on seals & gaskets leaking. It's an exceptional Ferrari that DOESN'T have a recurrent leak or two.
     
  25. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    HAHA thats bad!

    I dont know maybe I can fit in a ZR1 LT5 motor into it, if a 350 would fit then I could do that I have a extra :D and If you guys dont know the LT5 was a dual over head cam set up 4 cams 32 valves so I do have some experience with overhead cam engines but nothing on a ferrari im a virgin!

    The owner had good intentions and doesnt really want to sell it but the shops that worked on it kept screwing him and thats why so much money was put into it, like the 10K for the paint, and the current shop has had it for a year and never worked on it, why Im not sure...

    He told me he has all new conley (is that right?) leather for the seats new factory correct material for the headliner and as I understand it the same materal as the head liner is used behind the seats and up behind the small windows on either side that are behind the door glass.

    Lots of parts but thats where all you nice folks come into play with proper placment and what hardware is supposed to be used..

    johnny
     
  26. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    The shop that has it is renowned for their classic restorations and bodywork. They prep cars for things like Pebble Beach and such. That being said, cars and projects like that are going to take priority over this 308.... there are other factors I'm sure.
     
  27. MarkG

    MarkG Formula Junior

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    That's my 1982 GTSi in Colorado for $18K .....story:

    Bought car out of Chicago area, had receipts for major srv, including belts and seals. Car then sat for about 14 months with little use - result: leaked like a sieve and belts were stiff and oil soaked; FI was clogged and clutch stuck to flywheel.....Soooooooooo....

    New belts, timing gears, flywheel, clutch, FI work and $12,000 later it ran fantastic.....got my new tires and 4 wheel allignment and turned out rear bearings had gone bad (sitting too long....?).....then rear caliper develouped a leak (lack of use - seals go bad)....rebuilt them, replaced fusr boxes, thermo-time switch etc. etc.

    Now it has a noisy timing gear bearing (left one, you can see a slight wobble to it)....$300+ for parts and 22+ hours labor to fix it;

    There comes a point when dumping good money after bad into these cars just doesn't make sense anymore.

    Even for free this car your looking at is a loosing proposition. My GTSi is the strongest and smoothest running car I've owned - when it runs.
     
  28. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Mark, What's the color combo on your car?
     

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