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maintenance cost?

Discussion in 'Europe' started by alx355gt, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,494
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    Hello to all,

    I just recently discovered this site and think it’s really great!

    Since the age of 12 I’ve been dreaming to own a Ferrari and I know...one day I WILL have one! Now I’m 26 and I could afford a Mondial QV or a F308, but I think I keep saving for a F328, F348 or my favorite, the F355. What would you do if you were in my place?
    I’ve already driven a rental 328GTS (about 1000km) and a rental F355Spider (about 4000km), but the 348 remains a mystery to date.

    Because I don’t know a lot of people who are at home in the world of Ferrari, I still have a lot of questions. I hope I find a few answers here.

    First of all,
    1. I know it’s expensive to own a Ferrari, but I’m not sure about how much we’re talking here?
    Is it realistic to say, one can keep a 328, 348 or 355 and do about 10.000km/year for 10.000 euro/ year or is that to positive/ negative? I thought 3.000 for servicing, 3.000 for insurance, 1.500 for taxes and 2.500 for fuel consuption. Close or wishful thinking?

    2. I’m a regular visitor for the Spa Ferrari Days, Racing Days Germany, Zandvoort Ferrari Days,... (if your Ferrari was there in the last 10years, I most likelly have a picture of it :) )but I’ve often wondered if a Ferrari owner could just drive to the circuit like that, or if he has got to be a member of a Ferrari club to enter the paddock and/or track.

    3. Is it more easy to arrange a visit to the factory when you’re a Ferrari-owner?

    I would already like to thank you for reading this, and maybe giving me some answers.

    And now I’m gonna work and save even harder to achieve my dream!

    Greets, Alexander
     
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  3. jbanzai

    jbanzai Formula 3

    Feb 1, 2002
    1,564
    Madrid, Spain
    Full Name:
    Julio
    Hello Alexander,

    I can only talk from my experience. I own a '86 Ferrari 328 GTS US version here in Europe. It has now near 70.000 miles ( 112.000 Km), as you can see, it is a really high millage car. I own this car since early 2000, with a bit more than 45000 miles, so I have put on it 25000 mile (40000 km) in 3 1/2 years.

    In this time I have spent roughly 7000 US$ (when dollar was almost 1:1 with the Euro) with taxes. So I could say that the car has cost me roughly 2000 US$/year in maintenance, including the 60.000 miles major.

    Some will tell to to expect to spend about 10% of the buying price every year in maintenance, and that will actually be probably more accurate or better said, more of safe position. I have found this formula to be very accurate for the V8 models, not so for the V12s.

    The 10.000 you mention will be more in the numbers that will cost you to mantain one of the late V12.

    This is always asuming that you will be a responsible owner who do not abuse your car, and that yo do mantain it properly. And I am talking here not only about to take the car to the garage when the time is up, but about to look liquid levels periodicaly or after a long ride, and keep a premptive actitud toward the posible failures. That will, save you a lot.


    You will be lucky if you find an insurance company that insures your a Ferrari full coverage if the Ferrari is older than 10 years, and even more if you tel them you are going to make 10.000 Km a year.

    Be safe where you keep your car and when you drive it, because these days many companys will only insure you against the damages you might cause to others. So you will probably save that costa at ahigher risk. However once your car is 20 years old then you could get a full coverage Classic insurance with limited millage for not that much. That is at least the way is in Spain, it might be different in other countries.

    Average fuel consumption 15l/100km in my 328 GTS. (up to 20 when I go really fast, being near Germany that will be your case, Autobhan) so your 2500 Euros for gas might be a bit high, at actual gas prices in Spain, 0,92 Euros/l 98 octane gas it will be more like 2000 Euros.

    1.500 in yearly taxes for driving a Ferrari??? wow that is expensive. I pay 64 Euros/year in Spain for mine. Are you sure about that?

    Buy the best Ferrari you can get and mantain without compromising your economy. If you have to make efforts to pay the bills because of the Ferrari then you are spending too much, I do not think I am telling you anything you do not know ;)

    Other than that it depends on what do you like. Personaly I value a lot the stiling of the car, and my personal preference are as follows: 1st 456, 288 (just a dream, I won't be able to have one of those ever) and then the 328 and 308 QV, 355, 360, 550, 512TR.

    You will find the 328 a bit underpowered nowdays. If that is a concern then get a 355 (non F1, maintenance is potentiale way high because the F1 gearbox). I never liked the 348 so I can't give you any good advice about it.

    - Julio.
     
  4. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 8, 2003
    16,743
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Full Name:
    Wolfgang
    Hi Alexander,

    I totally agree with Julio - well said!!!

    I have owned and driven a 308QV for many years and was always happy. Sold the 308 with 95.000km on the odometer....yep well driven but always perfect maintenanced!!!!!!!

    Bought a Testarossa last year and the maintenance costs a ver easy
    to calculate: Just double all prices from the 308 and thats it what you have to pay for the fun driving a 12 cylinder:D....easy rules but sadly true;(

    GOOD LUCK & hope to CU soon on the road!

    Wolfarossa
    FORZA FERRARI
     
  5. URicken

    URicken Karting

    Mar 24, 2003
    196
    Frankfurt am Main
    Full Name:
    Uwe Ricken
    Hi Alexander,

    multiple answers has been given by other members of FChat. I would like to give you some answers to the not regarded questions you have:

    Everyone can visit the Paddock in case of paying the "high" price for the entry cards. e.g. The price for the Michael Schumacher Day was 100,00 € including paddoc and exclusive parking place in the drivers area

    IMO it is only possible to visit the factory if you are an owner of a Ferrari. Most dealers are arranging such an event and they invite their customers to this event. I have visited the factory once and in our group where two passionated Porsche drivers. They have had the chance to visit the factory too but they were not allowed to park their car in the area of the factory ;-).

    It was only possible because our local dealer has talked to Ferrari Deutschland ...
     
  6. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,494
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    Hey,

    Many thanks for the quick and useful replies.
    It makes me happy to know this is a good place to obtain info and experiences. Altough I will not be able to buy my dreamcar right away, it's very nice to have found a site with users so passionate about Ferrari.

    About the answers;

    It makes me even more happy to know that maintenance costs are not as high as I suspected.
    Altough I think that taxes here in Belgium are much higher then in Spain; I already pay 250 euro for my normal car, so a secondhand Ferrari must be at least 1000 here! :(

    I like the 10% rule, that way a 328 about 5.000 a year, 348 about 6.000 a year and 355 about 7.500 a year at the moment in Belgium. I've never driven or been a passenger in a V12, and I'm afraid those are out of range for me, altough many people refer to a V12 as the real Ferrari, my dreamcar stays the 355, but I'm ok with a 328 or 348 also. There are a lot of people that don't like the 348 isn't it? Maybe prices will drop faster then?
    Also I heard that the hoods of the 348/355 Spider versions can become a lot of trouble? (I never had a problem with the rental, but then again, it was always open ;) ) An open roof is a must for me (the sound!, the sun!) so it will be a GTS, TS or Spider.

    Off course I would take care for it, if you work so hard to obtain and keep one, that's normal.
    And hey, I even care about my little Fiat :) (never miss a service) and the rental Ferrari's I had, where always in my sight (and now in my mind).

    Further, I finally know what it costs to enter the paddock with a Ferrari, 100 euro is no problem for a day of fun, aah I already see my future Ferrari between al those other Italian beauties! Dream! The car already exists somewhere!
    But on such an event;... aren't you affraid for scratches or is it relatively safe? I always keep my hands of the cars, but unfortanely not everone does.

    The visit to the factory is on my list, once I have the right car. I've allready been to Maranello a couple of times but driving there with my...own Ferrari! Ooh, you know what I mean, it must be fantastic!

    I'm already looking forward to rent the F355 Spider again this summer for a weekend!

    Greets and enjoy your wonderful cars, Ferrari season soon begins!
     
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  8. jbanzai

    jbanzai Formula 3

    Feb 1, 2002
    1,564
    Madrid, Spain
    Full Name:
    Julio
    I do not know how it goes in Belgium, but annual taxes for cars are not calculated on the value of the car, but based on a Legal figure called Fiscal HP.

    This legal HP is a table based on groups of real HP, engine displacemnt and number of seats.

    In the case of the 328 the car is in category 23.24/199 (in the 200HP bracket)

    Also taxes varies from city to city. As for example, if my car were registerd in Madrid, I will be paying around 200 Euros/year for this tax. But I live in a village only 6 Km away from Madrid, and here the same tax is only 64 Euros/year :)

    So you should check, you might get a surprise and the tax might be lower than you think.

    - Julio.
     
  9. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,494
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    I did a little research (should've done it earlier, sorry)

    This is the car taxation system as it is in Belgium at the moment
    (based on engine capacity).

    0,7 and less 4pk euro 61,12
    0,8 - 0,9 5pk euro 76,43
    1,0 - 1,1 6pk euro 110,48
    1,2 - 1,3 7pk euro 144,41
    1,4 - 1,5 8pk euro 178,60
    1,6 - 1,7 9pk euro 212,78
    1,8 - 1,9 10pk euro 246,44 (my current car Fiat Bravo GT)
    2,0 - 2,1 11pk euro 319,84
    2,2 - 2,3 12pk euro 393,23
    2,4 - 2,5 13pk euro 466,49
    2,6 - 2,7 14pk euro 539,88
    2,8 - 3,0 15pk euro 613,27
    3,1 - 3,2 16pk euro 803,22 (a 328)
    3,3 - 3,4 17pk euro 993,30 (a 348)
    3,5 - 3,6 18pk euro 1.183,38 (a 355)
    3,7 - 3,9 19pk euro 1.373,06
    4,0 - 4,1 20pk euro 1.563,14
    4,2 - 4,3 21pk euro 1.648,42
    4,4 - 4,6 22pk euro 1.733,69
    4,7 - 4,8 23pk euro 1.818,96
    4,9 - 5,0 24pk euro 1.904,23 (a Testarossa)
    5,1 - 5,2 25pk euro 1.989,50
    5,3 - 5,5 26pk euro 2.074,78
    5,6 - 5,7 27pk euro 2.160,05
    5,8 - 5,9 28pk euro 2.245,32
    6,0 - 6,1 29pk euro 2.330,59

    Conclusion; Belgium is too expensive as it comes to this and my first guess wasn't that bad after al. But luckely, the goverment wants to rebuild this system in a few years, if I'm not mistaken. But it's also possible that this system stays the same and the tax for bringing a vehicle (new and used) into circulation, dissapears.
     
  10. Malfark

    Malfark F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2002
    5,307
    Mud Island, Europe
    Full Name:
    Markem
    Alexander,

    My friends and associates above are far better qualified to talk about costs than I am, but 5,000 a year for a 328 is a safe (and probaly high) number. It took me 42 years to pick up the courage to buy my car and I have never looked back! As Julio says, just get your numbers right, buy a quality car and treat it with love and care and you'll be fine.

    Cheers, MARK
     
  11. jbanzai

    jbanzai Formula 3

    Feb 1, 2002
    1,564
    Madrid, Spain
    Full Name:
    Julio
    Wow Alexander, that is pretty expensive.:(

    I found this and I thought it might be of interest for you. Although this is in the US and prices are signifcantly lower in Europe. It is a 328 maintenance record from another fchater davequick .

    - Julio.
     
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  13. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,494
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    Thanks for all your info, guys, also very intresting to see a real Ferrari maintenance record.
    I've still got time and I'm trying to be patiened, but at least now I know a bit where I'm going to. Before I discovered this site, I was only certain about the costs for buying one and the fuel consumtion (thanks to the Ferrari I rent once a year in august, fuel alone costs me 300 euro/weekend, but it's totally worth it :) !!! ) In the picture; the rented F355 Spider when I was In Vianden, Luxemburg last summer.
    I'm happy that good maintenance isn't that expensive as I thought, and it will be in my budget soon.

    Sometimes though, I think... I've already got the money for a Mondial QV or a 308, why not buy one??? But then again, guess I better wait a while to get a younger type?

    Hopefully I find a good one when the tide is high, I'll definatily keep reading the Fchat for experiences and buying tips, what to look out for etc,.... When I have one Iwill cherish it and you will certainly see me on the trackdays in Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands with my own Ferrari someday.
     
  14. rpmtifosi

    rpmtifosi Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    2,440
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Guy
    Hey Alexander,
    I recognize alot of you in myself!!
    I'm also 26 and a ferrari tifosi since i was little!!
    And i will also buy one someday! ;-)
    I could also afford one now, even my dream ferrari, the 360, is in my reach at the moment!
    But i think i would have to make too many sacrifices (don't know if it's the right word!)!
    I still want to be able to go out whenever i want and i want to do whatever i want, without having to think about my insurance bill or big service that has to be done!! If you know what i mean!
    I also think, the prices of the 360 (my favourit!) are still to high, i can better wait for the new model to come out!
    Besides, i'm still having way too much fun with my current S2000!

    I've read that you rented a 355 every year?
    Where do you rent it from? I've also rented ones a 355 spider but i think it's too expensive! You've covered 4000 kms with it????!!! that must have costed alot no?
    I would rather save that money for my own f-car!

    I wish you all the best and hope that one day, you can buy yourself a nice 355 spider!!
    Live your dream....

    CIAO....

    RPMTifosi
     
  15. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,494
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    Hey RPMTifosi,

    Nice to see someone from Antwerp here!
    I know exactly what you mean, I certainly want a Ferrari and one day I will, but there are also other thing in life you gotta keep in mind. Going out, live your life,...
    My girlfriend and I are also thinking about buying another house and having children, but it's impossible for us to do all that and buying a Ferrari at the same time.

    About the rental car; you said you rented a F355 Spider also? Because you're from Antwerp it's probably the same car I drove! (it came from Profer in Schoten, now the car has another owner; look at www.ferrarirent.com). I actually rented the 355 (also a 328GTS) together with a friend a couple of times since '99, so the costs where a bit more intressting. The last two years we had the Spider for a weekend and we're planning to do the same this summer. Already looking forward to it! Last year we went to Germany and Luxemburg with it.
    Off course it still costs a bit, but it's totally worth it. We can experience the thrill of driving a Ferrari without having to worry about the maintenance and the taxes. And I still can save enough to have one myself one day, so I'm comfortable with that.

    There will be a day that I will park my own F355 next to your 360 in the paddock of the Spa Ferrari Days!
     
  16. rpmtifosi

    rpmtifosi Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    2,440
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Guy
    Hey Alexander,

    So you got a girlfriend who's okay with your ferrari passion?
    You lucky guy!!
    I never got that lucky, my current girl doesn't like cars at all! :-(
    This one doesn't even like driving around in my S!!
    She does want children but i'm totally not ready for such commitment, so i guess it's not going to have a happy ending (again!!)
    Hey, i'm still young and i want to live my life to the max!!
    I also bought an appartment a few years back but i'm still living with my parents at the moment! This way i can save alot and btw it's a 5 star hotel i live in now ;-)

    I rented the 355 spider at profer like you said, but only for a few hours and i think 200 kms! Last summer i wanted to rent the 360 that ferrarirent has, but i just think it's too expensive for what you get!

    The 355 spider is a great car indeed but since i had a ride in a 360 (WITH TUBI EXHAUST!!), i really don't want anything else! The guy who gave me this ride is also a member here, but like me, he doesn't post here alot. Also too busy at work, making and earning the money to buy those damn toys ;-)

    Yes, like you said, maybe some day we will meet eachother at the Spa Ferrari Days with our own F-cars! :)

    Live your dream...

    CIAO...

    RPMTifosi
     
  17. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,494
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    Hey RPMTifosi/Guy,

    My girlfriend isn't as crazy about cars as I am, but she supports me in my mission to own one. She likes the F355 Spider and...the F40. The 360 Modena/Spider is also one of her favorites.

    So the F355 in my avatar, profile-pic and the pics I posted here does look familiar to you? :) Funny that we drove the same car.

    Nice Honda you've got there too! If I spot you in Antwerp/nightlife with the S (in the Spider this summer or in my more ordinary Bravo with the prancing horse on the rear window) I'll flash my lights, ok :)

    I didn't drive or been a passenger in a 360 yet :(, maybe I will rent the one from Ferrarirent someday, but you're right; that rentalprice is less intresting.

    Greets, Alex.
     
  18. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,494
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    Quote
    ---------------------------
    The 355 spider is a great car indeed but since i had a ride in a 360 (WITH TUBI EXHAUST!!), i really don't want anything else! The guy who gave me this ride is also a member here, but like me, he doesn't post here alot. Also too busy at work,making and earning the money to buy those damn toys ;-)
    ---------------------------

    I did a search at the memberlist, must have been Bel360? Did you buy the S2000 from him, perhaps?
     
  19. rpmtifosi

    rpmtifosi Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    2,440
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Guy
    Yes it was Bel360 but i didn't buy the S from him! But indeed, he drove an S also for a while, a blue one with nice 18 inch rims, fat tires and a very nice intake and exhaust-system!! (bel360: if you read this.... hope you don't mind i'm telling all this???!)

    I wish everyone here a great week and keep driving those f-cars like you stole them!!

    CIAO...

    RPMTifosi
     
  20. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,180
    EU
    Full Name:
    Ton
    Hi Alexander,

    I can tell you everything about owning and maintaining a Ferrari in Belgium. You are always welcome to shoot some questions on this board or through PM.

    Ton
     
  21. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,494
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    Hi Ton,

    Thanks for being so kind.
    Nice to get to know you through this site, I also saw your name when I did a search for Belgian members here (only9 at the moment?).
    Another beautiful 328 you've got there. Do you drive it often and how long do you have it?
    Maybe I can already ask you a question if you don't mind; since you don't life that close to the official Belgian dealers in Brussels, Antwerp en Gent, is your car maintaned by a smaller, local garage? And if so, is that reliable and/or more affordable than the officials? I presume that for small services that's ok, but what about a large check-up?

    Greets and have a nice week.

    Alex.
     
  22. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,180
    EU
    Full Name:
    Ton
    Alex,

    My car goes indeed for its service to a small Ferrari specialist in Maastricht. I think that they perform the service better than Ferrari itself.

    Ton
     
  23. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 8, 2003
    16,743
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Full Name:
    Wolfgang
    Hi,
    Just got this week my tax bill here in Germany.
    Testarossa tax for 1 year €uro: 795,-

    Why don`t you register in Germany????

    @Ton, any news on "it"?

    Wolfarossa
    FORZA FERRARI
     
  24. Malfark

    Malfark F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2002
    5,307
    Mud Island, Europe
    Full Name:
    Markem
    Alex,

    I know that Wolfgang and I would agree with this. One needs to find a small, local Ferrari specialist who is "in it for the love" to give one's car the treatment it really deserves. Our experiences with "official" Ferrari service centres have been expensive and less than pleasurable.

    Cheers, MARK
     
  25. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 8, 2003
    16,743
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Full Name:
    Wolfgang
    Very well said Mark!!!!!
    Its easy to buy a Ferrari, but its hard to find somebody who CAN fix the car right and you can TRUST in!

    Wolfarossa
    FORZA FERRARI
     
  26. Malfark

    Malfark F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2002
    5,307
    Mud Island, Europe
    Full Name:
    Markem
    "It"??????? :confused: Sounds interesting!!! ;)

    Cheers, MARK
     
  27. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 8, 2003
    16,743
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Full Name:
    Wolfgang
    Mark,
    you poor, lost, lone-some-hear on the island;) Do you never sleep? Still alive since yesterday/last night?

    Wolfarossa
    FORZA FERRARI
     
  28. Malfark

    Malfark F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2002
    5,307
    Mud Island, Europe
    Full Name:
    Markem
    Hi Wolfman!

    Oh yes - STILL here!!! Writing a letter to the German Government about something close to my heart!! ;)

    Cheers, MARK
     

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