Major Failure - F355 broken prop shaft | FerrariChat
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Major Failure - F355 broken prop shaft

Discussion in '348/355' started by Fredmec00, Apr 11, 2016.

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  1. Fredmec00

    Fredmec00 Rookie

    Apr 11, 2016
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    Frederico Oliveira
    #1 Fredmec00, Apr 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    One week ago, I have bought a F355, 1995, 54000 km on the odometer. I did all the pre-purchase inspections and took the car to a reputable garage, SG in Sao Paulo. They are know for maintaining lamborghinis and ferraris. I was guaranteed the car was immaculate and in excellent mechanical condition.

    The following day I took a car for a real road test. I didn't push very hard, not even close to what I do to my E-Type or AMG. Nonetheless, problems arouse.

    I realised the RPM was dropping from 6000 to 4000 rpm and then back up to 6000rpm, repeatedly. Gearbox was in forth gear and foot out of clutch. I could hear something that sounded like engine misfiring, but drop in revs with 4th gear engaged made me suspect something to do with clutch/flywheel.

    https://youtu.be/TybEAL2IZKI

    I made a turn and drove easier on the throttle on my way home, when suddenly the RPM readings dropped to 500 rpm and the engine started making some strange noises. The engine felt like on 4 cylinders. I stopped, opened the engine bay and checked, see second video below. Strangely enough I could still rev the engine up, but the dashboard only showed 500 rpm.

    https://youtu.be/mx2Xbcd28Bc

    I judged the noise was because I limbing in 4 cylinders, engine lights also were on. I have previously read about slowdown lights and one of the banks turning off. I assumed that was the case and I just needed to wait the exhaust-CAT temperature to drop. I waited with car in idle for 10min and nothing. Still noise and 4 cylinders. I decided to drive on 4 cylinders and continued my journey home hope all 8 cylinder would comeback.

    After another stop, toll fee station, the car would not drive in gear, seemed something had failed in the gearbox/clutch. I pulled the car to the side of the road, away from traffic and called the dealer who sold me the car the day before.

    The dealer towed the F355 to SG Garage. The gearbox was removed and propeller shaft found parted. Exactly at the same failure point shown in other threads in this forum. Picture attached.

    A new propeller shaft will have to be made locally, as Ferrari no longer supply this as spare.

    I am trying to understand why the propeller shaft broke. In my opinion all the vibration/shocks from driving the car with rpm ranging from 6000-4000 and driving it on 4 cylinder may have contributed to that. I can't see such behaviours it as related to a shaft getting "gradually broken".

    If you gents find time, have a look at the videos. I hope someone has a good understand on what could have lead to such failure and could share the knowledge. I need to find the root cause and push the dealer to do a proper fix, otherwise I am afraid I will face the same failure in the future. The car is being fixed at dealer's cost in SG garage.

    Best Regards,
    Fred
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  2. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #2 Markphd, Apr 11, 2016
    I suspect that you will find multiple things wrong with the vehicle, but let's start with the obvious, the broken prop shaft.

    When you decided to drive the car on 4 cylinders, you may have well decided to break the prop shaft. It will weaken (and possibly break) anytime you run the engine on 4 cylinders since the motor cannot dampen the harmonics caused by turning off one bank of cylinders. Essentially, the already overly hard shaft becomes work hardened and predictably breaks in the same spot every single time. There are solutions to the problem, but first you will need a new prop shaft (the F355 prop shaft typically runs about $2600 when you can find them, unless you decide to use a non-Ferrari part). Moral of the story, when the car is running on 4 cylinders, shut it down immediately and get it towed somewhere.
     
  3. Jackie and bill

    Jackie and bill Formula Junior

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    #3 Jackie and bill, Apr 11, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
  4. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #4 Markphd, Apr 11, 2016
    Yes, and one of the ones you refer to is my very own thread.

    I believe that it all has to do with harmonics, torsional spikes to the shaft, work hardening, and excessive hardness of the shaft and it's inability to handle repeated shocks. This occurs when running on 4 cylinders.
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #5 Rifledriver, Apr 11, 2016
    I agree that the propeller shaft will probably not be the only problem with the car..

    You have already been told but I will tell you differently. The car is not a living being. It will not heal itself. Limping home in a broken car is unwise to the extreme if for no other reason than the further you go the more it costs to fix. The per mile rate can be astronomical and in any event far more expensive than a tow.
     
  6. Jackie and bill

    Jackie and bill Formula Junior

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    #6 Jackie and bill, Apr 11, 2016
    Yes and you will also notice that i edited my post and posted up 3 links to help the guy.
     
  7. Marius

    Marius Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2006
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    #7 Marius, Apr 11, 2016
    FormulaGT in Munich offer an upgraded version of the shaft which will probably never ever break again:

    formula GT - TUNINGTEILE
     
  8. Jackie and bill

    Jackie and bill Formula Junior

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    #8 Jackie and bill, Apr 11, 2016
    Some cool gear on there, thanks.
     
  9. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 ernie, Apr 11, 2016
    ^This is the prop shaft you need^
     
  10. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Apr 13, 2004
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    Kzoo Michigan
    #10 phrogs, Apr 11, 2016
    Fact is it happens sometimes with these cars. This is about #5 I have seen.

    It really not that hard to replace and it's safe to say that car has been abused at some point. burn outs or something, It's a weak link in the shaft.

    you can push your dealer to replace the broken one that's about it.

    Id go with the link above as the propeler shaft from Ferrari is around $5,000 USD
     
  11. Enzojr

    Enzojr F1 World Champ

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    #11 Enzojr, Apr 11, 2016
    "Being fixed at dealers cost " at least helps with the pocket book part.
    And you have a link to a bulletproof prop shaft ;)
     
  12. FLORIDAsnakeEyes

    FLORIDAsnakeEyes Formula 3
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    #12 FLORIDAsnakeEyes, Apr 11, 2016
    That website though... wow 480HP setup.. at 35k though.
     
  13. Fredmec00

    Fredmec00 Rookie

    Apr 11, 2016
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    Frederico Oliveira
    #13 Fredmec00, Apr 11, 2016
    Could someone clarify if the noise from the engine is normal for running on 4 cylinders? Second video.

    Very good input, great stuff in this forum.

    PS: The locally build shaft will be made by a workshop that machines parts for Nascar. So I would assume it will be of similar quality as formula GT.
     
  14. st4rk

    st4rk Formula Junior
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    Dec 7, 2011
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    #14 st4rk, Apr 12, 2016
    Could improper driving while not warmed up to temp cause the shaft to degrade over time?
     
  15. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    #15 phrogs, Apr 12, 2016

    So improper driving is ok after warming up?
     
  16. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    #16 SoCal1, Apr 12, 2016
    After its warm beat the dickens out of it :)

    Seriously, even here in the warm weather it takes a good hour of driving before any of my F cars feel "fully warmed up"

    That feeling alone has me taking them on longer rides then before. 2 hour minimum on the road for me


    :)
     
  17. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 PAP 348, Apr 12, 2016
    They sell some amazing parts, thanks for the link.
     
  18. Fredmec00

    Fredmec00 Rookie

    Apr 11, 2016
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    Frederico Oliveira
    #18 Fredmec00, Apr 12, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just recalling the question,

    Is the noise recorded in the video below from a F355 2.7 Motronic running on 4 cylinders?

    https://youtu.be/mx2Xbcd28Bc

    Johnny, I dont think cold steel is the problem here. Outside temperature was 35° C (95°F) and I drove the car easy to get oil temperature to 100 °C (212°F). I would say shaft temperature was at least 60°C (140°F). The graphic below show notched steel strenght is pretty flat above 50°C (120°F). Temperature can be a problem for shafts exposed to temperatures below 0°C (32°F), but not in this case where engine/gearbox compartment is enclosed with an exhaust system inches away from the drive train.
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  19. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2014
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    #19 carwhisperer, Apr 13, 2016
    How much are you paying for the shaft you're having made?
     
  20. Fredmec00

    Fredmec00 Rookie

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    #20 Fredmec00, Apr 13, 2016
    I am not sure, car under warrantee. The decision to go for locally buit shaft was delivery time, otherwise I would go for the one from formula GT. The car has to be running in two weeks, it needs to be transferred under my name within this time. Local regulations :eek:
     
  21. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido F1 Rookie
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    #21 theunissenguido, Apr 13, 2016
    Assim, o Detran recomenda que, após adquirir o veículo usado, o proprietário agende, pelo teleatendimento ou pelo próprio site, a transferência de propriedade dentro do prazo legal de 30 dias.

    I believe you have some more time to register your car. And you have also "o jeitinho" ne.

    Guido
     
  22. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #22 Markphd, Apr 13, 2016
    This is my insurance plan....

    I am going to look into how I can get the right level of hardness without ending up with a brittle shaft. Thankfully I was able to purchase a few spare transmission circuit breakers.
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    I might add major kudos to my source across the pond... 4 days transit time from order to delivery... Amazing!!!!

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  23. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #23 fatbillybob, Apr 13, 2016
    No. Running on 4 does not sound like a box of rocks.
     
  24. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    #24 tbakowsky, Apr 13, 2016
    I have been repairing 355's since they were just out of warrenty and have never seen a failure like this.
     
  25. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3

    Dec 15, 2012
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    #25 97 Spider, Apr 13, 2016
    Do you actually have to take possession of the car? If a car absolutely grenades itself the first time I've drove it I don't think I would be so into being its owner. I would drop that thing where you found it, take my money and look elsewhere. You sound dead set on buying a nightmare.
     
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