Major Service engine in 348 | FerrariChat

Major Service engine in 348

Discussion in '348/355' started by tr0768, Jun 5, 2018.

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  1. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2008
    736
    Lake Stevens Washington
    Full Name:
    Howard Musolf
    Well just to clear the air, there seems to be some concern that you could not remove the crankshaft pulley bolt with the engine in the car due to the crossmember. It can be done, now let me tell you how my master tech did it.

    The problem is NOT that you can't get the bolt out, the problem is that you can't get the bolt loose with an impact wrench no room for the air wrench. Soo my very creative tech took a offset box wrench the proper size of the bolt head and cut the opposite end of the wrench off. Then using a length of pipe to slide over the wrench handle you can break the bolt loose. It will unscrew and you can remove the bolt once unscrewed. He did set the e brake and put the transmission is reverse.

    The next issue you will come across is the removal of the crank pulley. It is to big in diameter to slide past the cross member. 1st, using a caliper measure the distance between the back of the pulley and the timing cover so you know when reinstalling the pulley it is seated at the correct depth. So the next trick is to loosen the motor mounts and raise the motor 3/4th of and inch and the pulley then clears the crossmember and you are good to go.

    To reinstall 1st, you MUST clean the threads in the crankshaft of and debris clean the bolt threads as well the trick here is to clean both sets of threads so that you can hand screw the bolt all the way in. I can not impress enough how important this part of the procedure is, cleanliness is next to godliness according to my dead mother!!!!! We used a tap and die to just clear the threads not to remove any threads. There are threading taps and dies DO NOT use these, you want to use thread cleaning taps and dies or well worn ones. We used both brake clean and compressed air after our cleaning of both threads. Before you slide the pully on test the threads by screwing the bolt in with your HAND double checking that there are no burrs or restrictions on the threads, the bolt should screw in easily all the way to the bottom. Now lift the motor again and slide the pulley on then hand screw the bolt to seat it in. Now make sure the pulley is seated and checking you previous caliper measurement on the pulley. Then using a torque wrench you can tighten the bolt to the proper torque, that is the nastiest part of the entire job.

    At this point you have done the worst part of the job and now its exterior belts some hoses and fluids and get ready to light it off.

    Now some will say the best way is to drop the motor and I would not argue that point, it happens that we elected to do it our way and it worked for us. I am not suggesting one way or another so you pick you poison and do which ever way you choose, please don't shoot the messenger. I only offer my opinion and if you add 15 cents to my free opinion you still can't get a cup of coffee at Micky D's.

    just sayin'

    brsscarguy
     
    ernie and ///Mike like this.
  2. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    Howard, I like the way you (and your tech) think. Thank you for sharing your tips.

    BTW, what size wrench does the front pulley fastener take?
     
  3. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,778
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    36mm (if we are talking the same fastener)
     
  4. Cauf61

    Cauf61 Formula Junior

    Jul 12, 2016
    557
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Patrick
    You are talking about a cam belt change ?
     
  5. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2008
    736
    Lake Stevens Washington
    Full Name:
    Howard Musolf
    This was a major service, timing belts. acc belts, idlers, guides water pump, cam seals valve adjust and hoses. By removing the gas tank I replaced the failing rubber boots surrounding the fuel pumps. We also tig welded the timing belt guides on the sprockets. Included were spark plugs and wires, fuel filters and air filter.

    brasscarguy
     
    ernie likes this.
  6. alexion

    alexion Formula 3

    May 20, 2013
    1,379
    New York
    Did you set the timing?
     
  7. Cauf61

    Cauf61 Formula Junior

    Jul 12, 2016
    557
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Patrick
    Ok but you also did remove the tank, yes?
    I just did my major engine out and to do this engine in looks very very dificult to me to be honest.
    I took us 2 amateurs only 6 hrs at slow speed to get the engine out. So....
     
    Pangea likes this.
  8. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,778
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Yes he removed the gas tank.

    To each his own, but I would never do it this way. The car was designed for the engine to come out for this job, and that's the way I chose to do it my first time and will do so next time.
     
    ernie likes this.
  9. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    Thanks, Mike.
     
  10. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,620
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Thanks for the info Howard.

    Not that I would do it this way nor recommend it, because I've done two majors removing the engine, but thanks none the less. The more information we have about working on these cars the better.
     
  11. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    Truth.
     
  12. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2008
    736
    Lake Stevens Washington
    Full Name:
    Howard Musolf
    If you had read all of my prior posts I had to remove the fuel tank to reboot the 2 fuel pumps. So it was just as easy to do the belt service that way. As I also said to each his own do it what ever way you feel comfortable with. I just wanted the 348 clan to know there is another way to go if for some reason they are unable due to space or equipment to drop the motor.

    And yes we did check and reset the timing very accurately using both a degree wheel and dial indicators, as indicated here before the factory marks are "not exactly" accurate. I think from my point of view , this was an easy way to go.

    I really suggest anyone that uses ethanol fuel strongly consider removing your fuel tank and reboot the fuel pumps with Ricambi's new boots. I have never used ethanol fuel since I have owned my 348, but still the boots were desinagrating and very small rubber bits were sloshing around in the bottom of my tank. These pieces were small enough to cause downstream issues.

    I only offered my point of view for a 348 service, I don't suggest you follow my way or not, as I said before I only offered another option which worked for me.

    just sayin'

    brasscarguy
     
  13. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2008
    736
    Lake Stevens Washington
    Full Name:
    Howard Musolf
    If you had read all of my prior posts I had to remove the fuel tank to reboot the 2 fuel pumps. So it was just as easy to do the belt service that way. As I also said to each his own do it what ever way you feel comfortable with. I just wanted the 348 clan to know there is another way to go if for some reason they are unable due to space or equipment to drop the motor.

    And yes we did check and reset the timing very accurately using both a degree wheel and dial indicators, as indicated here before the factory marks are "not exactly" accurate. I think from my point of view , this was an easy way to go.

    I really suggest anyone that uses ethanol fuel strongly consider removing your fuel tank and reboot the fuel pumps with Ricambi's new boots. I have never used ethanol fuel since I have owned my 348, but still the boots were desinagrating and very small rubber bits were sloshing around in the bottom of my tank. These pieces were small enough to cause downstream issues.

    I only offered my point of view for a 348 service, I don't suggest you follow my way or not, as I said before I only offered another option which worked for me.

    just sayin'

    brasscarguy
     
  14. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,620
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    "Whatchutalking 'bout Willis?"

    As far as I have ever seen on the F119 engine the factory cam marks are spot on. This is ONLY for the F119.
    I also think the cam marks on the F119 vary by where the car was delivered (Euro, US, Japan, Etc) and if it came with or without cats. Also if it is a D,G, or H block because each has difference timing and overlap. I haven't confirmed that, and it is just my theory. But it won't surprise if it actually is the case. Even then the factory cam marks have been spot on for the F119 as far as I have ever seen. Just two weeks ago I was helping a fellow brotherhood member time the cams on his 348, and just like I said, they where dead nuts on the money @ TDC.
     
  15. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,625
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Your car, you can do what you want, including not changing the timing belt for 9 years .... (I know someone who did that).

    But, rebooting the fuel pump does not require the removal of the tank. Between the tank removal and the rigging of the pulley, and the inventing the wrench, you are not saving a lot of time. Plus engine removal allows you to do a few other things much easier. On the 348, it's stuff like: valve adjustment, changing the fuel filters, painting the fuel tank shield, changing radiator hoses.

    I recently did a Mondial T engine out (3.4L engine) and found that the maintenance that was ignored by the last professional mechanic (who did the t-belt by dropping the gas tank) was really atrocious.

    Again, I would not do it that way, but it is your car.'
     
  16. Cauf61

    Cauf61 Formula Junior

    Jul 12, 2016
    557
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Patrick
    Very correct Ernie. I know a guy in Belgium who worked for Ferrari most part of his life ( He lived in Maranello for 2 years for training; he is a real one not like the most "specialists" like the ones that worked on my engine !) and he told me the cam marks from early 90's onwards are spot on without any doubt. There was indeed a problem on the older cars type 512BB and others from the 60's and 70's. So the bad cam mark story for a 348 is a hoax, they are 100% correct.

    Why in the world would you think a factory in 1991 put cam marks on that are not correct ? It is not a little old man in the back room that puts them on but automated CNC machines.
     
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,625
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    cam marks on 348 and 355 are mostly correct on the ones I have seen. The issue is the positional specification called out by Ferrari is +/- 1 degree. If you only go by the cam marks, can you absolutely be sure that they are within 1 degree by visual inspection?

    If yes, then your eye ball calibration is better than mine. But here we go again debating cam positions. It is YOUR car, do what you want and pay the consequences.
     
  18. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,620
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    I think where someone COULD get confused is if they looked at the dial gage, just as the valve was opening, and then looked at the degree wheel. You have to make sure that the valve has opened to .020" (0.50mm) and THEN look at the degree wheel. For example, on my F119 the exhaust cam is supposed to open @ 54º before bottom dead center, yet when the valve starts to actually open is at roughly 76º BBDC. If you went on that you'd think the timing was "off". But once the valve has opened .020" (0.50mm) the timing is spot on and the pointer will be sitting on 54º BBDC on the degree wheel. So that is where I think a new person may get confused and think the cam marks on their F119 are "off", when in fact they are spot on.
     

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