Pro-Russian Rebel Commander: 'We Did Warn You ? Do Not Fly in Our Sky'
Known nationalities: 154 Dutch, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, 6 UK, 4 Germans; 4 Belgians, 3 Filipinos, 1 Canadian
Why are civilian airlines flying through the region? Sure, its probably faster and cheaper to go from point A to B in a straight line.
It was not an unusual routing. Lots of airlines go through there... well, they did. Probably won't again for a while.
It's worth keeping in mind that these are MOBILE missile systems. I can't tell you how many times I have seen someone just barely go around a the threat ring of a known missile site thinking they were safe as if nobody could possibly have fired the thing up and driven it around a bit.
Mobile is right. Engagement altitude range for aircraft is up to 25 kilometers. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Anyone pull the notams for Ukraine area? Curious what they say. Malaysia says there was no reason to avoid that airspace.
https://www.notams.faa.gov/dinsQueryWeb/ I think his is Kiev.... I don't have time to figure out what the center identifier is but anyone can use DINS in the link above UKKK ZHULIANY INTL [Back to Top] A1481/14 - INTENSIVE BIRDS MIGRATION IN THE VICINITY OF LO RWY 08/26. REF AIP UKKK AD 2. 14 JUL 12:50 2014 UNTIL 19 OCT 23:59 2014. CREATED: 14 JUL 12:51 2014 A1480/14 - OBST ERECTED CRANE. DISPOSITION FROM ARP: DISTANCE 1969M AZM 126 DEG ALT 274M AMSL NIGHT MARKED. REF AIP UKKK AD 2. 14 JUL 12:45 2014 UNTIL 19 OCT 23:59 2014. CREATED: 14 JUL 12:46 2014 A1479/14 - OBST ERECTED CRANE. DISPOSITION FROM ARP: DISTANCE 1953M AZM 153 DEG ALT 262M AMSL NIGHT MARKED. REF AIP UKKK AD 2. 14 JUL 12:40 2014 UNTIL 19 OCT 23:59 2014. CREATED: 14 JUL 12:41 2014 A1478/14 - OBST ERECTED CRANE. DISPOSITION FROM ARP: DISTANCE 1966M AZM 172 DEG ALT 260M AMSL NIGHT MARKED. REF AIP UKKK AD 2. 14 JUL 12:35 2014 UNTIL 19 OCT 23:59 2014. CREATED: 14 JUL 12:36 2014 A1477/14 - OBST ERECTED CRANE. DISPOSITION FROM ARP: DISTANCE 4219M AZM 90 DEG ALT 226M AMSL NIGHT MARKED. REF AIP UKKK AD 2. 14 JUL 12:30 2014 UNTIL 19 OCT 23:59 2014. CREATED: 14 JUL 12:31 2014 A1476/14 - RWY 26 AFTER LANDING ACFT TURN ON 180 DEG AT THE END OF RWY ACCORDING TO MARKING. 15 JUL 05:00 2014 UNTIL 27 JUL 21:00 2014. CREATED: 14 JUL 12:04 2014 A1474/14 - SEGMENT TWY 1 FM TWY 4 TO TWY 6 CLOSED. 15 JUL 05:00 2014 UNTIL 27 JUL 21:00 2014. CREATED: 11 JUL 13:04 2014
Very very sad day here. Everyone here is in shock. There was this steward, only child, who switched with his colleague last minute to reach home to Malaysia a bit more earlier than his original schedule. I really can't believe this. I don't think it's anyone fault, the skies were claimed to be safe for flight, and no distress call whatsoever was heard from the plane. I saw a video illustrating that the missile probably hit the wing and one of the engines, not the fuselage. I just hope someone get this sonofa*****.
We NOTAMed the area around Crimea and SE Ukraine, but the overflight groundtrack on this aircraft was further north than the NOTAM covered, according to reports. The national news was wondering why they deviated north from the normal groundtrack, and it may have been because of the NOTAM. Those SAM systems were bad enough when flying low level with ECM. An airliner at medium altitude is a sitting duck.
Would the airline pilots have known the missile was incoming once it had been fired? If so, is it practical to equip civilian planes with missile defence systems such as flairs and chaff dispensers and would either of those have been of any use in this instance? Or do you really need to have the manoeuvrability of a fighter plane to make flairs and chaff worthwhile? All the best, Andrew.
To add to the sadness, over 100 of the passengers were the world's leading HIV researchers and their families headed for an international HIV conference in Melbourne. The loss of their knowledge and expertise is incalculable. All of humanity was dealt a big blow today.
Is it strange that the black box was taken back to Moscow? What's disturbing is the video that was released by the Ukrainian gov, of 2 Russian's discussing how one of their groups shot down the plane.
Yes I would say so. -- Apparently the zone was to 32000ft, MH17 was shot down at 33000ft. I wasn't aware of the strong advise to avoid the airspace (regardless of how high). Surely an unnecessary risk was taken in the attempt to save fuel/time?
Sad thing... Just ran into this. Vladimir Suchan: Logos politikos: Another false flag? LH 17 likely downed by a SU fighter jet about 20 miles south east of Gorlovka
This is what happens when extremist get access to weapons. Russia should be held accountable as they have been supplying this weapons .
There was no way for them to see it coming. If we need to equip airliners with countermeasures against radar guided SAMs it time to take a hard look at just taking trains. This sort of thing occurs so rarely that it's not really worth worrying about. Radar guided missiles against airliners are like shooting fish in a barrel. Now against heat seaking MANPADs the Israelis already equip their airliners with countermeasure pods that use lasers. I don't wanna go into too much detail but you can look it up, basically it keeps the missile from tracking. There are other commercial systems that can be used on airliners, off the top of my head I recall seeing Raytheon advertising one. For now the MANPAD threat hasn't been that bad outside of a few areas overseas. In the future that may very well change. There were thousands of MANPADs that were "liberated" when Libya overthrew Quaddafi and they have presumably proliferated. Since our southern border is apparently open to anything skinny and about 5" tall it seems very safe to assume that they could be found here someday.
it will be interesting to see what the data was exactly as the facts present themselves...I still wonder why there is no world standard for flying in conflict areas..when the US carriers were clearly warned in April... Yes..i still remember the days of being painted with ground radar, and locked on with fire control..at least we had both ECM and ECCM...those poor people never had a chance...
