Malaysian air | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Malaysian air

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by 360Tom, Jul 17, 2014.

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  1. 360Tom

    360Tom Formula 3

    May 9, 2013
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  2. 360Tom

    360Tom Formula 3

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    I just heard the US intelligence claim it was a BUK missle system. See that Putin didn't deny the attack, just skated around the question.
     
  3. alexD

    alexD F1 Rookie

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    Oh boy here come the false flag conspiracies,flying in the face of all evidence and conventional wisdom.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
     
  4. thibaut

    thibaut Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2004
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    Hopefully the EU will go for much tighter sanctions.
    when you've got dangerous dogs, you must keep them under tight leash.
    Given its specialist nature, the 9K37 buk system may have been manned by Russian personnel.
    a very sad day for humanity. looking at news from gaza things look even grimmer.
     
  5. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    There have been a few places where I have turned on the RWR just to see what's going on and it turns out that stuff is going on but there is nothing you can do about it so I just turn it back off. I figure if it's between having 30 seconds of confusion with no viable options to avoid blowing up it's better to just be fat and happy and blow up with no prior notice.
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Andrew- The aircrew never knew that what was apparently an SA-11, an updated system replacing the SA-6, was coming. On airliners, ECM is pretty impractical for radar guided SAMs. There are too many types. Airliners are usually more concerned with IR guided, man portable air defense systems at take-off and landing. IR missile defense systems are usually much simpler than radar guided missile ECM, and are flare or laser (or both) based. We fit them to our transport aircraft and you can see photos of C-17s descending in a spiral while puking out flares. C-130s, too.

    This was a major error on the operator's part, about the same scope as the Iranian airliner the US Navy shot down. Not sure if this system was stolen from the Ukranians or provided by Russia. Either way, it is long gone over the border.
     
  7. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2003
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    Is it possible to determine type of missile from the debris field evidence?
     
  8. I16

    I16 Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2008
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  9. I16

    I16 Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2008
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    When airliners get shot down, facts get skewed quickly - The Washington Post
     
  10. alexm

    alexm F1 Veteran

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    I was on this exact flight almost 2 years ago to the day.. RIP to the souls on board.

    Let's hope we get clear and proper answers, followed by swift and full justice.
     
  11. I16

    I16 Formula 3

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  12. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Thanks for the explanations. :)

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  13. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
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    Got a couple of friends's friend on board the flight. sad thing is some of them refuse to accept this tragedy. One friend called me around 3 am this morning crying her heart out, she lost her best friend on the flight.
     
  14. 360Tom

    360Tom Formula 3

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    I still don't quite get how they couldn't tell it was commercial vs military.
     
  15. 360Tom

    360Tom Formula 3

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  16. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Tom- The SA-11 undoubtedly has an IFF system onboard that, in wartime, would allow friend or foe to be identified. In the case of ill-trained operators that were not connected to an integraged air defense system (IADS) that would have passed on air traffic information to them, along with identifiers tied to their callsign (MH17 or something similar), they were shooting blind looking through the soda straw of their acquisition and tracking radars. Full of themselves after shooting down a Ukranian transport and helicopter earlier, they found something, locked on without identifying it, if they even knew how, and hosed off two missiles.

    Everybody who had anything to do with the launch and all the equipment is long gone across the border as soon as the Russians figured out what had happened.
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    First missile was used on the first kill this week, Ukrainian supply jet, second missile hit MH17, I would guess.

    Ukraine did have some of these systems of their own.
    They will need to come clean if any of them have been over run and seized by the rebels.
    Either way it DID come from Russia, originally.

    As Taz states, it was not being operated by trained personnel, unless they were defectors from the Ukrainian side.....good point about operating alone vs. being tied to system communication.
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Tex- One of those support vehicles contains missile reloads, so my theory was they killed the transport and the helicopter, reloaded and waited. MH17 flies over, they hose off two at her, find out it was an airliner, and everybody beat feet across the border without wasting time to reload the TEL.

    Still do not know if the SA-11 came from Russia or was stolen from the Ukranians. Will come out soon.
     
  19. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Do they typically fire multiple missiles at a target with that system?
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Don- Depends on the SOPs of that service. Two missile engagements were quite common in earlier conflicts. Makes them harder to dodge, not that a 777 is going to do much dodging, but they did not know it was a 777.
     
  21. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Makes sense. Thanks.

     
  22. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Sorry to hear Brian.
     
  23. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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