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Maranellos are disappearing

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by intrepidcva11, Mar 30, 2015.

  1. Themaven

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  2. F456M

    F456M Formula 3

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  3. 21ATS

    21ATS Karting

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    Bidding reached £61,000 and it shows as a no sell.

    Results here, it didn't look like a great day for selling:-

    https://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/news/auction-news/2018-11/historics-auction-results-24th-november-2018/

    Lots of uncertainty in the UK at present and much of the economy is depressed and it seems the classic car market is following.
     
  4. NE550

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  5. Themaven

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    Yes there are lots of 550s for sale in the UK right now, more than 30. Some dealers have more than 1 for sale. Variety of mileages and price points. Add to that nervousness about the economy/future and it's a buyer's market, if the buyer has the cojones.

    Here's the cheapest 550 anywhere in the world, with 100,000 miles. I'd say that car's market value is around £30-£35k, but what do I know

    https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/ferrari/550/1997-ferrari-550-maranello-rhd/8869771
     
  6. 21ATS

    21ATS Karting

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    I've browsed that car on line a number of times on line and I thought ...What if? It's only about 20 minutes drive from me.

    If I want a driver, something to use and not worry about how many miles are piled on that then surely that's it (as long as it's fundamentally sound). But like you I think the asking price is way too much but I was thinking more around £35-£40K.

    Something like this must have a dismantling value which effectively becomes it's lowest market value. What's a non accident damaged 550 worth in parts to someone like Eurospares?

    Anyhow it's all mute at the moment, my 550/575 budget has been allocated to an extension and refit at home by Mrs ATS, she thinks the two cars I currently have are enough for the moment.

    We all know a happy wife = a happy life.

    Doesn't stop me looking though and the asking prices are creeping down slowly.

    I like both of these:-

    https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/ferrari/575/ferrari-575m-maranello-manual/7242177

    https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/ferrari/575/ferrari-575-mm--rhd--manual--fiorano-handling-pack-dk957/8860976

    The asking prices are not even in the right ballpark though for the current market, even with the desirable manual gearbox. Particularly with 45K miles, that's lifted right out of collectors radar.

    That's really what I want, a manual 575.
     
  7. Themaven

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    The first 575 on your links is a dead ringer for mine, but with more miles and nicer wheels.

    The second one looks nice.

    Manual 575 with FHP is a phenomenal monster. It's the last of my cars I would sell if disaster struck.

    Long-term, mileage for real collectors' cars becomes irrelevant (look at Daytonas/275s). I have the feeling that manual 575s are being desired by real enthusiasts (rather than speculators) and will never dip much lower, also due to their rarity, but then I have skin in the game.
     
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  8. F456M

    F456M Formula 3

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    I can’t understand why someone pay 160.000 dollars for a nice 550 and you say this one in an excellent colorcombination is only worth 35.000 pounds! 100.000 miles is not much if the car has been taken good care of like this one. Many 550/575s has run up to 300.000 kms. The quality of this car is simply outstanding. The design is perfection. It is much rarer that a 964/993, and it has twelve cylinders and can keep up with a modern Lambo up to 200 mph. What more can you wish for?
     
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  9. 21ATS

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    The following are the ramblings of a potential buyer who up until a year ago had never thought about buying a Ferrari as I'd always considered it beyond my means. Things change and I'm now now able to afford one of these lovely cars.

    Welcome to the anomalies of the UK car market.

    What goes on here, due the side we chose to have the steering wheel on our cars, bears little resemblance to the rest of the world (the LHD world that is). You can't compare values in the USA with values in the UK, it's just a pointless exercise, even more so with our weak currency at the moment.

    So with the unprecedented position the UK currently finds in, leaving the EU next March, everyone is nervous. Personally I think it's going to be the "millenium bug" all over again - nothing happens and everything continues as normal. But all the time people and business think something terrible might happen, sentiment is low, at an all time low.

    To that end people are holding on to cash and not investing in assets and this has had a dramatic effect on the collector/classic car market. It's a buyers market now and that is only going to be more so next year.

    The prices being asked/achieved for cars here 18-24 months ago are now history and many people look to be trying to bail out without taking too much of a hit on their purchase.

    Anything approaching 30,000 miles on a Ferrari (I'm talking 90's onwards) here is considered high, which is odd as they are often in need of recommissioning.

    60,000 miles is considered a potential money pit.
    100,000 miles is borderline lunacy.

    Perception is strange thing . A 45,000 mile car has a much chance of being healthier than a 20,000 mile car that is 15 years old, assuming it's been well cared for. But the value of that cars is disproportionately less due to the obsession of these cars not being used and therefore being more valuable.

    So yes, in the UK a 550 Maranello with 100,000 miles is going to find it very difficult to find a home unless it's offered at a too good to be true price.
     
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  10. Themaven

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    Alan, Erik, I largely agree with you, except, the current glut in the classic/modern classic car market is not just in the UK, it is Europe- and worldwide. Everyone's selling, usually at a much higher price than anyone who's buying wants to buy at. Whether it's Daytonas or F512Ms in the US or 550s in the UK or 308s in Europe. Or other marques, with some exceptions. Astons seem to be on a roll.

    I guess 911s are a bit different because Ferraris are considered high maintenance. There are lots of 911 owners who love the idea but baulk at what they see is the potential cost of a Ferrari, any Ferrari. So they stay with the safer options.
     
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  11. F456M

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    All my friends with Porsches have very expencive engine problems. Haha I am thinking to myself, knowing that my car that were supposedly going to be expencive to maintain, more or less is as reliable as a Rolex watch. Even with a bit of hard use. I hate to see the market will go down, but I don’t really care to be honest. My car is perfect for me and I will not sell it. When I bought it, a 430 Spider cost about 2-3x what I paid for the 550. Now, the only 550 for sale in Sweden cost 140.000 euro and the 430 Spider 90.000 euro :)
     
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  12. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 Formula 3
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    Ladies and gentlemen, I started this thread three and a half years ago.No one was selling Maranellos, they simply were not available so that the few that were offered could virtually set the price. Three and a half years and 862 posts later it has demonstrated perfectly what I wished to convey, that the market is the market. One cannot argue with it, it is what it is.

    Somewhere in between I think I wrote that a good friend who was a dealer financially backed by a money man, urged the money guy to finance their purchase of as many Daytonas as they could find in acceptable condition while they were available at $75,000 to $90,000 and simply store them. This was late 1980s. The friend declined.Three or four years later Daytonas were selling at $250,000.

    Most of us here are not dealers so we are not thinking of Maranellos as commodities but as extremely beautiful artifacts that also provide us with great joy in driving.
     
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  13. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 Formula 3
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    P.S. the preceding 'last winter' Maranellos had been selling at $75K - 90K
     
  14. F355 Fan 82

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    I do think maranellos longer term will appreciate but the problem you're running into is the younger people like me just dont want them and you need us to purchase them. So im 33 and I bought my maranello in nov 2017 and I love it dearly bc its something I always wanted growing up. I recently bought an 812 so to say im a front engine Ferrari fan is an understatement. I think the 812 is the greatest car I've ever driven and its not even close. I also know alot of guys my age 30-40 who are exotic car owners from various cars and coffee events and work and frankly most people my age do not like Ferrari. I mentioned in another thread, I usually get called an old man for owning one and a few crack jokes that Im the only Ferrari owner who doesnt wear hats,shirts,etc promoting the brand.

    Ferrari has a stigma with younger people as not being cool and being a brand for old men who wear the gear. Younger people with money also have zero desire in playing Ferraris cat and mouse game on getting allocations. Mclaren, Lamborghini, Porsche you can walk right in and pick up whatever model you want, whenever. To be frank Mclaren and Lamborghini cars are much sexier than new ferraris like the 812 or portofino. You can lease a brand new 570 Mclaren for sub $2k/mo here in miami, obviously its like $20k down, but its still fairly cheap to get a sexy car you can buy a few month old one at $170k all day long, I just paid $432k for my 812 so the price gap is enormous and Ferrari is losing a big battle with the younger crowd.

    Yes historically Ferrari was the king, you have to remember how pitiful lamborghini was in the 90s, my dad had a countach when I was a kid and it was in the shop more than it was at home, it was a serious piece of junk, so much so he never bought the diablo. Ferrari was pretty much the only game in town till 2004 when bentley released the continental GT and Lamborghini brought the gallardo, before then unless you were willing to shell out $300k for a murcielago you didn't have an option like the $160k 360. Today all the car makers are making faster and cheaper cars, Ferrari is not, well they make the portofino but like the california its thought of as a girls ferrari with alot of guys, personally i just hate they styling. I recently was at the dealer in miami who has ferrari,porsche,etc and they had a used 2015 Porsche Gt3 for $125k and it would run circles around my maranello and not cost a fortune to maintain, I spent $9100 this past year maintaining my maranello, but of course that was a bad year, I know future ones wont be as bad.

    What Im trying to see is new cars are AMAZING, they're getting to the point where unless you love the body style like I do with my 575, there are much better cars available for the money. I hope my generation turns around an appreciates older cars, I dont know perhaps I am an old man spiritually bc I own a 575, a 500e mercedes, and an SL500 from the 90s, but most of my friends seem to want the newest and best things and nobody appreciates the cars that got us here like me.
     
  15. F456M

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    Interesting post F355fan 82.

    I hear what you say. But rarity and good taste has a much higher price in many cases than «value for money». I use to say: «I don’t want to be one of the guys. I want to be the only one». To be different has a price too. And when you pay that price, you loose attention from many, but you also get attention from someone else. Of course the new cars you mention are fast and great cars. But they are all much more just a luxury sports car. Something you see every 5 minute in the Miami traffic. But how often do you see a 550/575? This is where the extra price come into play. Taste is a personal thing, but to own an old car in top condition require much more effort than a new car in top condition because a car is perfect from the factory, but an old car in perfect condition tells alot more about the owner. That is pretty much how I would define class when it comes to cars. When I bought my 550 in 2013 it was «an outdated sportscar». Now, I have a totally different way to see it. Now it is an accident free classic which is important to use correctly and preserve for the future because it become more and more rare. And that gives me great satisfaction. And people never see them on the road anymore. I had a trip of 4000 miles through Europe, in all kinds of countries including Italy, Monaco, France and Switzerland. I did not see one single 550/575. That was special...

    Congrats on your 812. I would love to have one too !! Post a few pictures of it here please.

    Best of luck with all your toys,
    Erik, 36
     
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  16. Bradwilliams

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    #866 Bradwilliams, Dec 6, 2018
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    I have a 99 Sl500 and it behaves and acts almost EXACTLY like the Maranello minus the 12 cylinder engine. Both are about equally as visceral. My only regret was buying mine in the first place. Should have bought the V8 vantage instead. 550 was a great car all the way around it just didn't feel great. No sound, back end constantly popping up and down through hard shifts, and too isolated from the road. You could have the thing up to 140 and feel like you're in a Lexus. The only thing I liked about it was the feel of the gated shifter and the styling. Looks to die for. It was the color combo that sucked me in, the grigio ingrid on bordeaux leather. I couldn't resist! :confused:

    The R129 is an OUTSTANDING car. The longer I have it the more I like it. And she is GORGEOUS. I'll bet that 500e is a blast to drive! What is it like?
     
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  17. F355 Fan 82

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    #867 F355 Fan 82, Dec 6, 2018
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    I love it I bought a 5k mile 1999 on bat a few months back, I haven’t even driven it, it’s in a warehouse I have for my cars lol. I always wanted one. Very cheap for what they offer. The 500e I haven’t driven much I bought maybe the lowest mile one around 14k miles. It too is tucked away in storage, the one that gets the miles racked up is the 812, I’ve put 1200 in 2 months since I got it, it’s the only one that’s gonna lose money so it gets the miles. Here it is at erik, I’m sure you know where that place is since you come here alot that was the day I got it, I was so excited I live a block from there but I still drove it,when you come down message me we can grab lunch
     

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  18. F456M

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    Wow, that thing looks like sex on wheels! And spraking of the wheels.. They are spectacular!

    About the location..... I have no ide really, but if I am guessing, it might be on Washington Ave maybe between 3rd and 10th street, South Beach...?! Where the tattoo shops are. Would be fun to catch up. Maybe I get a chance to come some time during Jan or Feb. It’s about time to fire up the old XK8 again.
     
  19. F355 Fan 82

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    ha its the world famous joes, you're right washington, but 1st street haha
     
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  20. F456M

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    So two blocks away. That’s not too bad considdering I am on the other side of the planet :)) I miss Prime One Twelve steak house though........ what is the best speed you’ve got with it? I had 145 mph. with a brand new C6 Corvette rental car on the Turnpike. But it was quite unstable compared to my then 11 year old 456M at the time.
     
  21. F355 Fan 82

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    I cant admit to speeds achieved, they've arrested people for youtube videos, i will say the 812 is just awesome, the exhaust is out of this world, the sound system is great, it shifts so smooth, its very comfortable, its the total package, i really cannot imagine a better car. I traded in my SLR when I got it, that was a real piece of work, very uncomfortable and expensive to maintain, I do not miss it. The 575 I do think is prettier and I like the feeling the F1 gives you when you shift vs shifts that feel like nothing. There's so many screens and settings in the 812, I cannot imagine them being on the road in 20 years like the maranellos, or if they are I imagine it will be a chore to keep them running.
     
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  22. 21ATS

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    This is an interesting observation and I wonder how it will pan out in years to come.

    Ferrari don't seem overly bothered on providing support on their back catalogue as can been seen with the number of threads posted on F chat asking for alternatives to parts NLA.

    The more cars are reliant on the manufacturer only electronics the more the chance of them becoming obsolete I guess.

    Maybe it's another reason to buy something a little more analogue and mechanical if you're considering classic or very long term Ferrari ownership.

    I still want a 575 more than I'd like anything more modern from Ferrari.
     
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  23. Bradwilliams

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    They're not pieces of furniture my man get them out and drive them! ;) I agree the R129 is criminally cheap. I've always had my eye on one and bought it slightly on impulse. Had a good friend who bought a cream puff about 8 years ago and loved it. Drove it quite a few times so I knew what to expect. I was pretty set on getting an M roadster but after having an E38 for 5 years, no way I was going to buy another bmw, done with that company. I've put about 4k a year on it and it just runs like clockwork. Started off with 450sl and got rid of it after a year. Man that car was a turd. Here she is at the biltmore
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  24. F355 Fan 82

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    Ha they are great cars, the problem is I live in miami beach and parking is very limited, i have 2 spots covered in our condo, and I pay $100/year for one on the street so I bought a cheap warehouse back in texas where im originally from and I keep them in there on battery tenders,jacks and I wish I could have them here but the same warehouse would cost me 10x in miami haha
     
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  25. F456M

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    Sell the new 812 and buy a warehouse in Hallandale or Tamarac! HAHA.
     

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